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What if there is a god?
Has anyone here every thought about what if there happened to be a god. It doesn't really matter what god or what religion just if there is one. When you die what do you think they/him/her would say and how you would react? If they were a god that passed judgment, do you think that they would understand your reasons for not believing and forgive you or would they punish you without question?
I was raised Christian and while I don't believe anything they say, the above still crosses my mind quite often. I'm a musician and I get a lot of gigs playing for church services, especially around Christmas and Easter. It's hard not to listen to the sermon and try to understand their way of thinking during these times and these questions always pop into my mind during and after the service.
I was raised Christian and while I don't believe anything they say, the above still crosses my mind quite often. I'm a musician and I get a lot of gigs playing for church services, especially around Christmas and Easter. It's hard not to listen to the sermon and try to understand their way of thinking during these times and these questions always pop into my mind during and after the service.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Dr. Terence Meaden on -
Hi Loren
Here's why I see that the possibility of something supernatural being out there somewhere is so remote:
On another thread--which I'll look up and add below--were discussions about pre-Big Bang possibilities that make use of known physics.
The consequence of using quantum theoretical physics to explain the postulated timeless quantum void which is an alternative to the present universe could intimate that a universe is always present because of the implied instability of any pre-Big Bang void or empty universe.
For this see the discussions at
www.atheistnexus.org/group/originsuniverselifehumankindanddarwin/fo...
This includes a video film by Lawrence Kraus about a possible theoretical origin for the universe.
The short of it is that the present Universe could have come from a kind of “unstable quantum void” via a purely natural mechanism for the transition 'empty Universe' to 'non-empty Universe'.
That is to say, the Universe was self-created, instantaneously and uncaused, from an unstable timeless void or false vacuum having the property that incipient, virtual particles were omnipresent.
Hence there are two possibilities: either one has an unstable void or one has its alter ego the Universe.
But this logic means that universes in real time are all there can be, because their absence would imply an unstable state of the void that cannot exist in time.
Thus, our Universe simply is . . . because at least one universe is necessarily always present. If not, there would be a void instead—but a void being truly unstable, a universe would instantly replace it. By this reasoning, a Universe–or universes—must be, and always were, and always will be.
So these theoretical cosmologists conclude that because time cannot exist prior to universes, universes cannot have any first cause.
Without a first cause, there is no origin, no creation.
Therefore postulations of the supernatural are superfluous—needless, worthless...
... and what I say next is something I have written very many times:
Atheism is the natural condition of the Universe into which we are all born and where we innocently live unless cerebrally raped by indoctrination into some ‘faith’ by intellectually-challenged persuaders who prey mostly on children. People’s gods exist only as fictions inside their heads. Religion is a sham.
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Permalink Reply by Loren Miller on -
So I'm a not-quite-recovered victim of rape. Bloody lovely. I'd sue someone, but somehow, I don't see that working too well.
That religion is a sham ain't news and maybe all I'm doing is a scientifically induced ass-covering that (I HOPE!) doesn't equate to Pascal's Wager. I am neither a cosmologist nor a trained debater. I'm just a troubleshooter who relies on what he knows and what he's seen and has never presumed to know it all ... 'cuz sure as he does, the machine comes up with a failure mode neither you nor I ever thought of!
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Permalink Reply by Loren Miller on
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Addendum: the ONLY absolute I see in this relative world is the constant state of CHANGE. Since nothing stays the same, you might postulate that something that NEVER CHANGES (i.e.: some deity) isn't bloody likely to exist, or so I suppose....
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Permalink Reply by Loren Miller on
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Hey, I'm practical as hell, most times, and you'll hear me say this a LOT:
If it works, USE IT!
If it don't, LOSE IT!
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Permalink Reply by Loren Miller on
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For ever rule, there is an exception,
And for every exception, a rule ... I THINK! -
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Permalink Reply by Eagle Ashcroft on -
I quite agree with your assumption as that would better explain the reason and existence of the universe which the reason it exists of its self to have always been. But the first existence of free life (animal/human) could not just come at a given beginning as how could it have evolve from any beginning, therefore it must too have always existed in some form or the other. Would you not agree under the circumstances?
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Permalink Reply by Eagle Ashcroft on
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I really do not know as I was just suggesting perhaps life in some form may have always existed and evolved through billions of years to human and animal form. One theory by scientist in the sixties suggested evolution begin at the plants level and evolved into animal and finally human. Anything is possible. I don't process to know how life begin or when it begin or for that matter where.
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Permalink Reply by Ogden Lafaye on -
"Beginning" "end" "creation" are all man made words in an attempt to define what we don't understand.
In the real universe I doubt if these words apply. -
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Permalink Reply by Ogden Lafaye on
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On the universe bit: Universes flow into black holes and are expelled into what we may consider "other time continums" yet in the very absence of time are all part of the working universe. "End and Beginning" are constructs.
There is a very good chance that it was ALL drawn through a black hole energy point and expelled and will do so again. Matter can neither be created or destroyed and to think that there are other "matters" (elements) unknown to mankind "out there" is ridiculous.
In this vein, and considering the newly discovered vastness according to the Hubble telescope, life as we know it, in some past, present or future state, most certainly exists outside of our solar system. Considering the vagaries of evolution, life almost certainly exists outside of our system as organic creatures possessed of intelligence that do not resemble humans, and due to the consistent nature of matter, we WILL be able to communicate with them.
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Permalink Reply by Ogden Lafaye on
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Well Terry...I am a 7...but in my dreams?...laughter I can fantasize with the best of them. Dawkins just may be a 6.9999er for arguments sake or a small bit of hope (credibility?)
My former next door minister, the first time he rode in my truck, commented that I might get out of traffic tickets easily, but I would have to answer to God. I laughed and said, "just where is this God?" He said he felt I would come to Jesus and expressed high hopes for my conversion and I said, "You really think I will turn ignorant overnight?" and I started laughing and said nothing but laugh all the way home. He never rode with me again.
I would burn incense in the garden and he would ask why? "Because it keeps away Christians"...laughter
He is Baptist, born-again, believes the Bible is inerrant, is Creationist and anti just about everything...the genuine article. About 20 people in town believe his poop doesn't stink...and have isolated themselves from everyone else...sad people.
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Permalink Reply by Roy Batty on -
Does the question for this discussion have any meaning at all? It sounds like a meaningless question.
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Permalink Reply by Loren Miller on
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It might equate to the old saw about "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin," or something like that, I suppose! Granted, I hedge ... and I'm reminded of a scene from George Clooney's take on the classic film, Fail / Safe:
Tommy Grady, Col. Grady's Son: Dad! How long is this one gonna be?
Col. Jack Grady, Command Pilot Group 6: Shouldn't be too late.
Tommy Grady, Col. Grady's Son: Are you sure?
Col. Jack Grady, Command Pilot Group 6: I'm positive.
Tommy Grady, Col. Grady's Son: Only fools are positive.
Col. Jack Grady, Command Pilot Group 6: Are you sure?
Tommy Grady, Col. Grady's Son: I'm positive.
And that one line sticks with me: "Only fools are positive."
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