Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Gary Burk on November 20, 2010 at 11:43am

Richard Dawkins, although brilliant, often ducks questions by supplying rote and/or
circuitous answers. This is one such example. The question is "What if there is a god?".

Saying "there is not a god" is not responsive.
I suggest that one should not worship anything or anyone, including their teachers and heros. Dawkins is certainly admirable, but accepting his pronouncements as facts is not, in fact it's directly opposed to his teachings.
Refusing to respond to a question is legitimate - unless one has announced that they are open to questions. In that situation, a more honest response would be "I don't wish to respond to that question".

So, What if Zeus is real? Are we all damned? Maybe Zeus just doesn't care one way or the other? Maybe Zeus has been occupied in fighting for supremacy with Baal, and having just won, is turning his attention to us!!! Then what?

I look at it this way. The probability of a god existing seems very small to me yet I know that many seemingly smart and successful people believe that a god does exist. So, perhaps I'm simply wrong. Either they are mistaken or I am. Am I smarter then they, or somehow more attuned to reality? I think I am but they may disagree. Perhaps they are right? I have decided for myself that the probability of me being wrong and them being correct, multiplied by the cost of me behaving as a religious person does, is non-productive. I think that probability is vanishingly small and the cost of religion is quite high, so I'm not very concerned about acting atheistically.

Regards,
GaryB

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Permalink Reply by D R Hosie on November 20, 2010 at 5:18pm

I don't think Dawkins' answer is circuitous at all. It is a rather straight forward response, designed to point out the absurdity of the question, when viewed from one step back.

And, rather than hold himself out as the measure of all things, he has placing the onus on the questioner, to first enlightened him as to what it is, in the questioner's mind, that would presuppose the existence of one god, over the another? (thereby forcing the questioner to confront the obvious answer for themselves.)

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Permalink Reply by Rich Lane on November 20, 2010 at 1:51pm

If there is a god, then there is a god. What of it? It's like asking "What if I am the only being in the universe and everything and everyone I experience is a part of my imagination?" Well, then it is. I can only go about my life as the evidence dictates I should, and evidence indicates that there other beings.

No god or gods have made their existence known, so I can only live my life as I do--by following the dictates of rational thinking.

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Permalink Reply by Bruno on November 20, 2010 at 2:51pm

First off, stuff like "the question is irrelevant because there is no god" is, well, pretty fucking appalling in a community of so-called freethinkers.

But on to the point:

If the existence of A god of some sort ever became a fact, anyone in its right mind is expected to acknowledge it and adapt, why not? I'm well ready to, if the idea ever makes real sense, if anything substantial shows up. Now, say the catholic-like god himself shows up in all his infinitesimal minuscule chance of existing. Then, my friend, we would have a hard time "adapting", aka "burning in hell".

If the personified, male, Abrahamic ,god exists. You know, the tyrannical, sadistic god that gets really snappy when people don't believe his existence, then ,for starters, I and everyone in this network would be all very, very, VERY fucked, beyond any stretch of imagination! rofl
And obviously, we would be all burning in hell before we ask any questions when he decides to do his little apocalypse thing. And worse, all the holier-than-thou ultra-religious fucks and even the average bigot cunts we met throughout our lives would be laughing at our faces saying "I told you so, it's the apocalypse! Burn in hell, atheist! But we love you!". They would not only be right, but they'd be getting special favors from their demented old testament god of theirs. The pessimistic voice in my head would finally have no obstacle to reign free "Well, Bruno, ironically, after a life of trying to be a good and fair person, you found out, against all fuckin odds, you were actually created by a giant humanlike all-powerful, all-knowing, all-douchebag entity that represents everything you ever fought against. He went on a vacation and now he's back - no explanations - to kill your ass and basically fuck you for all eternity because you didn't have any decent way to know he even existed. Like that was any reason to get all vengeful monster on you. No wonder why all things just and reasonable seem to always end up crushed in the clutches of despotic assholes in our little world. It's the way of HIS universe."
And those would be my last thoughts before eternal damnation. Fade out.

Fuckin dramatic, eh? So, yeah, I guess that would suck. But luckily the odds seems to be waaaaaay on our favor :P

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Permalink Reply by eric stone on November 25, 2010 at 11:36am

I think your response illustrates the absurdity of the existence of a god. How could such an entity be moral and ethical and then do this to anyone? This is self contradictory which to my mind makes it impossible. When something is impossible, the question of "what if" doesn't apply. For example, it is like asking what if the earth was both a planet and the size of a carbon atom? Impossible.

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Permalink Reply by Noah Petersen on November 22, 2010 at 3:23am

I have no problem with people making the statement "I believe in God".

It's when the try to apply a false scientific method to it; I.E.-itelligent design. Religion and science have never and will never be compatible.

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Permalink Reply by Joshua H. on November 22, 2010 at 6:51pm

I don't believe it can be said with certainty that there is or is not a god, so I see no issue with his questioning. I, too, was raised Christian, so I can relate to where he or she is coming from.

For me, I guess we won't know for sure till we die. If it were a god who valued true conviction then simply professed (surfaced) conviction, then non-believers might not suffer (if there is a sort of punishment for disbelief).

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Permalink Reply by Mr. Clare Dotson on November 26, 2010 at 3:15pm

Well, even if there was a God, what makes you think that its the one in the Bible?? Why not Vishnu?? Or Allah?? Or any other dozen of names that depict God according to the culture that gave those names??
Its a human thing. The bible is a book of conflicting contradictions, if you ever really read that book you would only find one pissed off human being with some really super powers, and that is about it. Such a being couldn't possibly have created this universe, not on a rational or common sense thinking sense anyway. The bible god as is would of destroyed this planet and universe in one of his many insane fits long before now. The Bible God or the religions that are based on that book just does not make any sense, not according to the way nature works as we have observed it.

CD

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Permalink Reply by Jacob on December 2, 2010 at 6:11pm

I wonder too. I know it's logicly impossible, but being raised Christian, I still get a little guilty and unsure. But then I remember how my parents try to convert me back and the guilt goes and I remember the fallaces of it and the doubt goes away.

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Permalink Reply by Park Bierbower on December 3, 2010 at 9:33am

What makes anyone even think that if there is a god it gives a single shit about us? If it did happen to exist, I find it highly unlikely that we would ever know~ we see only a sliver of the spectrums of light, let alone whatever would create those spectrums.. I think the question is, in a sense, null and void. now maybe its refined to "what if one of the human gods existed" but I didn't get that impression from my reading of the question.
point is, if there is/was a God, it would be beyond all comprehension for us. In a post I made in another thread, I mentioned that being religious is the height of arrogance simply because it assumes we can understand so much grander than ourselves~ no one person can design, build, or operate an aircraft carrier~ it takes teams of people just to develop the concept~ so why would anyone assume they could know or make sense of something that created all the complexity of the solar system as an afterthought?

Again, my point is merely that if one died, finding god wouldn't likely be anything like what we humans like to fantasize about. comprehending the incomprehensible? nah

if that wasn't the question, i would like to think that when I met the christian god i'd get a high five~ he build a fuckin' universe based on reason and order, an incredibly systematic machine where actions elicit specific reactions~ you think he'd appreciate a life based on the same principals, not just a grab bag of beliefs and emotional responses.

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Permalink Reply by Mr. Clare Dotson on December 25, 2010 at 5:49pm

We create God in our image and according to our own understanding, which why every religion is the world is so screwed up.

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Permalink Reply by Beth L. on December 25, 2010 at 7:18pm

I came late to the discussion, and admit I haven't read all 45 pages of comments.  But my thoughts on your question are best summed up by this quote attributed to Marcus Aurelius:

‘Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you
should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be
gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories
of your loved ones.’

 

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