Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Loren Miller on June 12, 2012 at 6:24am

They say that history is written by the winners, and if the winner and loser themselves (god and satan) don't exist, then the representatives of the winners would tend to dominate things, no great surprise.

If there is a real contest here, it is between rationality and irrationality, with the latter currently holding the majority, while rationalism may be slowly but surely ascending.  Personally, I don't like the satan vs. god model, as I don't care for either of those characters and neither has any demonstrated existence.  Rationality vs irrationality, however, is VERY demonstrable, and I think that is where our focus should be.

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Permalink Reply by Pat on June 12, 2012 at 8:31am

To be honest, when I first read this, I was thinking, "So What. Flying Spaghetti Monster vs. Quetzalcoatl. Superman vs. The Incredible Hulk, etc." However, it got me thinking about the Abrahamic religions that all claim to be monotheistic, and are not. Judaism has Yhwh, but also has the god of evil, being Satan. And there are other spirit creatures, such as Golem, dybbuks that possess humans, etc.  In Christianity, there are three gods in one - trinity - a theistic Swiss Army Knife. And, they also have the god of evil, along with various and sundry lesser gods such as angels, saints, and demons.  And, while Islam has Allah, they also have the same god of evil the other two do (plagerism?), along with angels, jinns, and a host of other other spirits.

So, the point I take from this, whether it's God v. Satan, or FSM v. the Titans, or Allah v. Batman, is this. While many claim to be monotheists, there really aren't any.

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Permalink Reply by booklover on June 12, 2012 at 9:41am

Pat, "trinity-a theistic Swiss Army Knife."  That is awesome! LOL

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Permalink Reply by booklover on June 12, 2012 at 9:42am

What I don't get is that if their "god" is all-powerful, why doesn't it kill satan?

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Permalink Reply by James M. Martin on June 12, 2012 at 6:06pm

You posit a question that has been answered enthusiastically (in both senses of the word) by the world's Gnostic sects.  In the Mideastern tradition there are the Yezidis, who worship Satan in a cave, lighting candles to His name: they see the Devil as ruling this world, so He must be the true God.  Similarly, the early and medieval Christian Gnostics included such "satanic" sects as the Cainites, who turned the litany of saints in the O.T. upside down, claiming, for example, that Cain was infinitely superior to Abel because the latter was favored by another god called Ialdabaoth, just as Korah was superior to Moses.  When you stop to think about it, why villify Judas of Kerioth since it was only through his interventioin that the Messiah was allowed to go to his death that we all might have eternal life? (You can say one thing: the religious have practically monopolized blindness to reason.)  Ialdabaoth is actually the same as Yahweh and Jehovah, but he is satanic.  Only Abraxas is divine.

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Permalink Reply by Sentient Biped on June 17, 2012 at 10:33am

Excellent information!  I enjoy learning the obscure points of religion. 

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Permalink Reply by jay H on June 17, 2012 at 8:02am

There have been a number of sci-fi type stories that pursued this angle, with fascinating results.

Many years ago I encountered a short story (I wish I could remember where or by whom) that re-cast the Jesus/Judas tale. It became more of a Julius Caesar/Brutus tale, where Judas, after long self doubt, got the courage to try to stop the madman, but it was already too late.

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Permalink Reply by Sentient Biped on June 17, 2012 at 10:37am

Really excellent point!  Considering how awful the bible god, "God", behaves, arbitrary, mean, murderous, angry, just really really cruel, the god "Satan" might well be a nicer person.  And if "God" is lying to everyone, then maybe you are right that hell is not hellish.   Considering that the supporters of "God" always seem to want to kill and punish people, they are more demonic than demons. 

Of course, it's what the followers do that's important.  The rest is all fiction.

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Permalink Reply by michele ricketts on October 20, 2012 at 7:07pm

Without polarising into Satan and God man has beeen believing in good spirits and bad spirits ever since the first camp fires polarised the darkness.

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Permalink Reply by booklover on October 20, 2012 at 7:20pm

@ michele ricketts.  You are exactly right.

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Permalink Reply by michele ricketts on October 20, 2012 at 7:50pm

There is one reason that Satan exists hand in hand with God and that is because it creates an itch for humour It is always somewhat devilish undermining what is proper. There are hard asses good or evil with no sense of humour but from the out-side looking in each has been poked fun at with time or another part of soceity looking in.
So the devil seems more harmless because he knows how to have a larf while god is so goddamn serious. ( and verges on blasphemy to think of god like Santa)
No sir the fundamentalists should call us devils not infidels. More apt.

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Permalink Reply by michele ricketts on October 21, 2012 at 5:33am

Omg I just realised Santa is an anagram for Satan. Good grief! ! Its far worse than devil is ( having) lived backwards.
You know it's not right but I always found the fact of priests mis-conducting themselves on young boys funny. It's in league with the Devil to find it so but it illustrates how humour works from the out-side looking in. Oscar Wilde or someone like him said that it is earnestness that kills good art. ; there has to be some form of irony. The devilry inherant in funny humour is a form of extreme irony.
Unfortunate irony for the Church to set up the great Satan as yet another intimidation device towards belief little knowing the opposition of virtues STIMULATES comic relief. For all the Devils in Hell threats it certainly never stopped anyone from any class sinning. Getting caught was more scary because of terrible punishments exacted in the real world.
Understandable if no-one gets my British sense of humour that is darker than American....?
Hell we find the word " bloody" bloody funny.

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