We atheists are in a hopeless minority in the world, but we are so optimistic about the future that we truly believe that the world will see our viewpoint eventually. This is, of course a well founded belief. Two questions arise from this optimism. What the world should achieve before it accepts atheism and what will be the social order of the world after it becomes atheist?  If we except the world to change in 100 to 200 years time, then it is high time we start thinkng about these questions. 

MADHUKAR KULKARNI.

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We see real change.  Never before were we allowed to speak so openly to such large masses without fear for lynching.

 

I see things like this;

Though religion is as foolishly illogical as the charlie brown great pumkin story, many beleivers are indeed NOT foolish.  They ARE brainwashed, and suffer a obvious delision.  Since it is, in my mind, more an illness than a real "I truly believe this and thought it out logically", because common sense alone shows this is not the case.

 

There are to many PHDs out there kneeling on a floor somewhere groaning to santa clause (equivalent) for it to not at least startle some of you as a very dangerous delusional state within the believers mind.  This is NEVER good for a growing, evolving society.  There was a reason the dark ages were "dark" and it was not the non-believers burning people at the stake!

 

I think, if our community as a whole would start to justly recognize that these are not "really" believers, but suffers of a very much cureable mental condtion.  This philosophy will help you from thinking of them as "idiots".  If you do not respect someone, you cannot help that someone effectively either.  It will also help keep you from getting overly frustrated.

 

Though it is painful to beat your head agaisnt a wall, where every sound, logical thing you say is "seriously, and emotionally" argued with from a purely absurd stance...  It is WORTH the effort.  I am proud to say I have successfully deconverted over a dozen true believers in my 50 years, because mental health, supported over mental illness, only helps EVERYONE.

 

So, keep the (lack of) faith ;)

 

 

I am an optimist. I do feel that eventually everybody has to realise the truth which is not going to remain hidden for all the time. My optimism also tells me that the time when this will happen is not far off. Therefore, atheist have to give good thought to the social setup of the future. This discussion was originated with this idea. I am, however, very disappointed with the response, considering that much lighter subjects receive a very large response.

What should be achieved before this? The first and foremost important thing would be realisation of brotherhood of all human beings. The thought of war should never occur. All money spending on armaments must stop and human uplift must become the priority above everything. All existing armaments must be destroyed. Atheism is not a religion but is an idealism.

 

When there will be no belief in god, atheism will have served its purpose. What will be the idealism of the future then? On what will be the new social order based? Humanism is of course the closest ally of atheism. This, however, is not an answer for all the required base of a good social order. In present day, in Indian languges, the word 'dharma' is used to mean religion. However,in the ancient times, when Christianity and Islam were not even existing, dharma meant a code of good conduct. For example, pitrudharma meant a fathers code of conduct towards his children or bhratrudharma meant a codee of conduct for brothers for mutual conduct. Other relogions may also have had some good guidelines for human conduct. These were all based on good human conscious. So humanism and god conscious have to become a new basis for a new social order. We atheists should take a lead in formulating such a code of conduct.

We want people to forego their faith and religion, and so we should see to it that this does not leave vaccum, this is going to be our responsibility. We must prepare us for this. This is what I have to say in a nutsheel, as a social code of conduct will be a very big subject.

MADHUKAR KULKARNI.

"We want people to forego their faith and religion"

 

I don't think this is true at all. Atheism simply means not believing in god(s); it does not necessarily also imply the generation of a political and social system.

 

In my experience, most atheists don't care if someone wants to be a christian, a jew, a muslim, a buddhist, a jain or whatever. They can believe what they want.

 

Many atheists only become concerned and/or involved when someone else's worldview begins to impinge on their social rights.

 

"When there will be no belief in god, atheism will have served its purpose. What will be the idealism of the future then?"

 

You should look at current political and social systems where atheism and secularism is already strong - Japan, some Scandinavian countries, etc

 

"The thought of war should never occur. All money spending on armaments must stop and human uplift must become the priority above everything. All existing armaments must be destroyed. Atheism is not a religion but is an idealism."

 

Yes, this is idealist; it's also unrealistic and does not stand up to logic and reason. To quote William Burroughs 'Man is bad animal'. We've always been an aggressive species, irrespective of belief system, so why should it suddenly change?

Humans need to deal with 'how we are' not 'how we wish we were'.

 

 

Furthermore, actually wanting people to forgo their beliefs is no better than religious right-wingers and fundamentalists fanatically wanting to turn people away from atheism toward god.

You will never get a world where everyone thinks the same thing. It's very unlikely that this is going to happen.

No thats not true, school teachers every day break kids from false beliefs, albeit not religous beliefs, but schoolastic studies.

 

The your ok I am ok stuff has never worked in all history.  Religion fuels ego, imparts a rediculous sense of duty to "save" the none-believer, and no matter your arguement to the contrary, I will never accept that watching your fellow man suffer because of a delusional state, is a good thing.  It IS a problem.  None of the religions as a whole give a crap about your beliefs, they need flock, sheep to sheer for money, in exchange for false hope and misguidance.

 

If religion was harmless, the crusades, salem witch massacres, among hundreds of horrid events, would have never happened. And no, wanting to help your fellow man out of a foggy delusion is NOT the same as being religious yourself.  It only shows you dont know what you are talking about.

 

 

"No thats not true, school teachers every day break kids from false beliefs, albeit not religous beliefs, but schoolastic studies."

 

There's a difference between an instilled groundless belief and acquired knowledge.

 

As an aside, I would consider teachers indoctrinating children with religious belief to be an imposition on social rights.

 

Religion fuels ego,

 

Yes, of course it does, but so do misguided concepts (and no so misguided concepts) of 'nationhood' and jingoism, but I don't hear people saying "we need to stop people thinking of themselves as American or Iranian or Russian, etc"

I've read quite a few messages on this forum and I have to sadly say that 'atheism also fuel ego'. Some people (only a few) on this site have been spouting real garbage in the name of atheism.

 

It can be applied to any form of Us Vs Them. "I want people to think like democrats rather than republicans" It's not going to work.

 

The bottom line is that wanting people to think more like you, whoever you are, is not the answer. The christians think that we are just as foggily deluded and want to help their fellow man .

 

Just as I don't want Christians to impose their belief system on me it's not fair of me to impose my belief system on them.

 

We have to let people think what they want, but at the same time make sure that constitutional rights (the right to be religious in any way we want and, equally, to be free from religion) are upheld and not distorted.

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