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Welfare Reforms?

Looking at the current depression, how can we find better solutions for welfare reforms?

Ronald Reagan put a freeze on welfare in 1980 and it has steadily declined ever since. Many applauded this action and painted Ronald Regan a hero. At the same time in 1980 the country was faced with higher unemployment, the denied discovery of an epidemic called AIDS not to mention the newly created crack epidemic. All of these occurred in the 1980's

and the cost or impact to society was...

Let's look at the data: http://www.bls.gov/tutorial/

This is just the tutorials pages but when you discover that you can find statistical information related to a particular year and what the costs are of having these events simultaneously occurring at approximately the same time. For instance 1980

If a young mother was on welfare in 1980.. The the drugs infiltrated (crack) not to mention the denial of aids, the ending of the war (Vietnam) and she was already in an impoverished state. What could the out come be? Now add in high crime, slums and slumlords, pimps, prostitution, and mis-education what will you get?

You will get a generation of children...
You will get a generation of grand-children...
So let's fast forward to today... 2009!

I have often wondered what ever happen to those blacks who invented or created anything that made humanity much better. As I looked at the many inventions I discovered a puzzling question... what happened to their children? Or their grand-children? Hmmmm, I thought what an interesting proposition, the lost children are they really lost? It's really scary to think that one of these children could be lost to poverty, how ironic... but as I've mentioned before in several conversation posts...

I have an IDEA! Based on probabilities, is that speculation or lumping in the good with the bad? How about the poor whites? Statistics show that evidenced as well (OK so you caught me napping) I'll just crawl back under my rock>>>>>

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Permalink Reply by Josh on November 29, 2009 at 1:07pm

Personally, I think Nixon's plan for welfare reform was a pretty good one.

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Permalink Reply by animus on November 29, 2009 at 1:16pm

Oh, so it was Nixon? Wasn't he impeached?

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Permalink Reply by Josh on November 29, 2009 at 1:20pm

Huh? No, Nixon's ideas about welfare were completely different from Reagan's. And I think Nixon's ideas were pretty good on that subject.

And no, he wasn't impeached. He resigned. (Which does not mean he didn't do anything wrong, though without an impeachment hearing the presumption of innocence must remain in play in a legal sense.)

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Permalink Reply by animus on November 29, 2009 at 1:23pm

But that's not what I've been told. Expound on this a bit further please? If you don't mind taking the trouble.

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Permalink Reply by Josh on November 29, 2009 at 1:31pm

On which? Here's a 1969 TIME magazine article on Nixon's plan: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,898523,00.html

The basic idea was to ensure that people who received welfare didn't just rely on welfare and become a drain on the system by requiring them to either hold a job or enroll in job training as a condition of receiving more than the most basic of assistance. Obviously it never came to pass, and it was criticized by both liberals and conservative (which, personally, I think is an argument in favor of it...), but I think it was a good plan and could have done a lot of good had it been implemented.

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Permalink Reply by Creature on November 29, 2009 at 1:57pm

They already have things like that. If you collect welfare(or unemployment) you have to prove that you're currently seeking full-time employment. And if you lose your job you can collect unemployment if you're enrolled in an approved in demand training program.

The biggest problem with the system here is that its so worried about being ripped off by the poor, that it makes any assistance as crappy as possible. I can think of two different people collecting Social Security(you know, people that can't return to work), that receive less than $50 a month in food stamps.Often times you'll find people that could work a very part time job, but have an illness, collecting Social Security and living in abject poverty, but at least they can get their medications this way. Most of the people I know that collect benefits want to contribute, but can't work enough to meet their basic needs, and the government programs force them to do nothing in order to get help. The part of Nixon's plan that really would have helped was the idea of establishing a minimum income for everyone regardless of employment.

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Permalink Reply by animus on November 29, 2009 at 2:31pm

Yes Josh I see what you mean... it's a bit skewed by my estimation of the topic at hand this is about today not 40 years ago but it's interesting historically.
http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=time+magazine+1968&am...

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Permalink Reply by Josh on November 29, 2009 at 2:36pm

It's not just interesting historically. If we're looking for ideas to improve welfare, why would we ignore ideas from the past that were never tried? As far as I'm aware, this idea hasn't actually been discredited, it just failed to gain the political support needed.

Especially today with our national debt expanding dramatically we should be looking for ways of simultaneously helping people and reducing spending.

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Permalink Reply by Tarquin St John Sh'gn'sty on May 25, 2010 at 6:06am

"Oh, so it was Nixon? Wasn't he impeached? "

No and so what if he was?

Impeachment is only being charged. The person needs to be convicted. Until that time the presumption of innocence applies.

Your question is straw man;it's irrelevant to any policy ideas Nixon may have had.

Richard Nixon was one of the better US presidents of the C20th. He was not especially crooked or unethical. In my opinion Jimmy Carter was the only US president in the last century who could take the moral high ground above Nixon.

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Permalink Reply by animus on November 30, 2009 at 2:22pm

I just heard that black people were the chosen people of "God" how is
that possible? What about the other good people of the world? When god
comes is he going to come with wrath or an economic blessing? A well
thought out plan where we all come out humanely ahead. We are in a
recession at present and blacks are poor and angry! But I was just in
the welfare line and guess what? They were every nationality, shade and color, men,
women and children!

All those false promises for people (bible and religion) who are
working on their dreams (capitlalism) of creating goodness and not
world war. What will it take for us to realize that we all love our
children? Understand there is a slavery clause in that bible. It gives
people who are poor false hope not based on reality, but fiction
(hocus-pocus) mystical.

The focus is to look to resolve these issues and when we say resolve
them we mean "all" of us. I had a talk with a few spirits the other day
and they want us out of this land, it's theirs and it was stolen
through trickery, chicanery, lies and deceit and they are not like
that. They are spiritual and feel the universe, we hadn't tried that
one before because we never had to live in a village as savages.
X-mas is coming and somebody's child is hungry, poor, dirty,
defenseless, homeless and not just blacks who are at risk. Slavery is
not acceptable. I have slaved for you and your kind for centuries, but
you did not cry for me when I was raped, murdered, mutilated or beaten.

Here is the Tim Wise Video :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ8xQPdjJfM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlqLijhxT_M

Here is the Rev.Wright Version:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKQna-5j0CY

But yet you enjoy the fruits of "YOUR" labor and leave my children to
suffer, why? Are not my children just like "YOURS"? Oh, so sorry that
was the past! My bad, lets move forward and see if we can humanely
solve these issues.

Josh: why would we ignore ideas from the past ?
Yeah let's just throw the baby out with the bath water...

Sikivu Hutchinson's blog: http://www.atheistnexus.org/profiles/blogs/the-white-stuff
http://www.atheistnexus.org/profiles/blogs/prayer-cult-nation

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Permalink Reply by animus on April 8, 2010 at 11:53am

This the only place I could think of where to put this video. It was part of what I was thinking when the conversation was about capitalism and welfare reform... sorry to all who got snapped on.I had a nervous break down in November and was hospitalized in December. My train of thought is still the same, but my notes are gone some what. Was trying to write it all down before I lost it, my sincerest apologies to all who have participated in this thread :) I owe ya one or two beers. >>>>> crawls back under my rock, but shall return because this video and the idea of why we can't dissolve religion is part of that equation.