Vegemite

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Tara Benson on September 27, 2011 at 9:56pm

I think you're being a bit hypersensitive here.  They're neither supporting nor advertising religion.  They're merely telling people that Vegemite complies with specific dietary restrictions that just happen to be observed by people who are religious.  Would you have the same reaction to a product labeled vegetarian/vegan or gluten free?

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Permalink Reply by Steph S. on September 27, 2011 at 10:07pm

Tara, I agree.  You said that perfectly. 

"They're merely telling people that Vegemite complies with specific dietary restrictions that just happen to be observed by people who are religious."

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Permalink Reply by leveni on September 27, 2011 at 11:03pm

Along with Becca, Good point.

 

I think there is a large difference between religion and vegetarianism/veganism. But in Australia many people are critical by Veganism, and such people may be offended if a vegan label were to be placed on an item they bought.

 

So is the topic we are really talking about here 'freedom of information' to all consumers?

 

For me I still can't buy Vegemite any more. The Kraft corporation is condoning religion. It is saying it is obeying the laws of God. It is processing food that follows the laws of God. For me it is a definite, no way.

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Permalink Reply by Nerdlass on September 28, 2011 at 12:47am

It's very difficult for people to be vegetarian in Japan. A lot of meat-derived things, like bacon or fish sauce, aren't considered meat, here. Plus, vegetarians must learn kanji for ingredients if they decide to buy processed foods. Being vegan would be extremely difficult, unless all you were going to eat was tofu salad or things you make at home. I have some Jewish friends who can't always eat kosher, but they are appreciative when they see the label. It means they don't have to fuss with asking if there's pork or looking for 豚肉 in the ingredients list. Though, this is Japan and not Australia, where there isn't so much a literacy problem for most alien residents.

 

The other thing to consider is that kosher butchering (when it is performed correctly) is one of the most humane ways to put the animal down before its carcass is turned into meat. Moot point for yeast, I know, but for other things like sausages and packs of meat, consumers might choose kosher over non for that reason alone, even if they aren't jewish. 

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Permalink Reply by leveni on September 28, 2011 at 3:30am

Being vegan or vegetarian anywhere in the non Western world is easy. The only problem with being vegan is finding vitamin B12. The reason why being a vegetarian is easy, is because in most non-Western countries, meat is too expensive for the average person to afford. Vegetarianism is their only option. Meat is only served on special occasions.

 

While in Japan, if all you want to do is eat processed food from 7/11 then this might be a little harder if you can't be bothered learning Kanji. And Kanji is an extremly simple thing to learn, so no excuses when you are in Japan.

 

Kosher butchering is humane??? You have to be joking. Who ever told you that is a liar. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTx6jllXs28

 

I suggest you start to research things that you would like to say before you post here.

 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Nerdlass on September 28, 2011 at 4:12am

Humane by comparison. I did see the story about the improper handling of butchering in Iowa. If you notice, I did spell out "when it is performed correctly." The stroke is supposed to render the animal unconscious. If it does not, then it's not correctly performed, is it? I have seen the horror videos. I'm not unaffected, but I'm also realistic about the situation meat eaters are in, by being reliant on butchery done by others, in order to enjoy the food on their (or in my case, my) plate/s.

If you are an exchange student, then sure, you can spend a lot of time learning kanji. I personally love learning kanji, but no, it is not easy for everyone. If you are here to work, your time to study is limited. I have many friends here at various levels in their comprehension, and most have a hard time with kanji, so please do not generalize the difficulty as being 'easy.' If it is for you, then more power to you.

I'll admit I haven't watched your link. I'll do so now.

That may be the same one as in Iowa. PETA helped shut the Iowa slaughterhouse down, and now it's owner by a new company. I don't know if the new company does kosher butchering or not. The thing is, the announcer tells you right out that the butchers aren't holding up kosher law. In that case, I would hold the company in contempt for advertising its product as something it isn't. Religion aside, it states it follows an expected set of guidelines known and upheld by outside groups of people, and then it doesn't deliver.

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Permalink Reply by leveni on September 28, 2011 at 6:38am

We are diverging for the original topic which is probably along the lines of: freedom of information for all, to put it politely or from my point of view, sycophanting to the religious.

But,

Thanks for the reply.

俺は外人で生まれたんですが、俺の第二国語が日本語です。もう２０年間以上日本語を勉強しています。I must say I do have an unfair advantage in the Japanese language. But like anything in life it comes down to perseverance.

 

In regards to the slaughter of animals, I am biased in area. Mainly because I eat vegan most of the time. The only time I eat meat or dairy is when I visit my nieces and nephews and eat dinner with them. Their parents wouldn't appreciate me indoctrinating them with my personal views. So I just eat what they eat and say thank-you at the end of the meal.

 

Getting back to the issue at hand, I must thank you for your comment. After a bit of googling I just found the Halal certification mark for Japan:

http://www.jhalal.com/english

and the Kosher one, kind of:

http://www.ok.org/Content.asp?ID=164

 

Man, these religious people are well organized. 

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Permalink Reply by Nerdlass on September 28, 2011 at 7:07am

Yes, sorry we got off track there. And wow! Hope I can write such good Japanese after 20 years of study. Admittedly, my grammar and lexicon are terrible, but I tend to work out basic kanji well enough. Even so, reading is still the hardest area of the JLPT for me,

I do eat meat, but I try to be responsible. I stay away from tuna because it is overfished... I tend only to eat it when it's served at enkais as a set meal for everyone. I get most of my protein from tofu, dairy, and nuts, with chicken and fish being my preferred meats. I don't know how butchering practices are handled in Japan, but I would imagine it is not too far different from the west.

Out of curiosity, are there vegan and vegetarian markings used on products in some countries?

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Permalink Reply by leveni on September 28, 2011 at 6:48pm

Kanji. The only way to learn how to read and write it is by repetition. Repetitively writing it and repetitively readig it. I've easily written over a million Kanjis in my life time. At my peak, I was writing over a thousand a day. Just the same Kanji again and again. 

 

Maybe they still sell　

毎日の復習 基本のたしかめ漢字ドリル 1年ー６年

http://www.kyougaku-kenkyuusha.co.jp/kihontasikame.htm

 

The book is a little different to what it was 20 years ago though.

 

It is sold at Kinokuniya in Shinjuku and that's pretty much how I learned Kanji. Everywhere I went I always had one of the series in my hand, studying Kanji. I started at year 1 and did them all until year 6.

 

Being Vegan or vegetarian in Japan is easy, except if you want to socialise. As soon as you make friends, it's almost impossible to escape meat. When I'm by myself I eat vegan, when some one offers me food I just eat it, regardless.  Even religious food. Except for when I'm in China, I just can not bring myself to eat dog. I say no ever time, and people just laugh and offer me something different. I think they know foreigners can't eat dog.

 

Out of curiosity, are there vegan and vegetarian markings used on products in some countries?

http://www.google.com.au/search?um=1&hl=en&lr=&safe=off...

 

It looks like there are. I rarely eat processed foods, so I've never really looked. 

 

I'll continue with the Kosher stuff in another post.

 

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Permalink Reply by Tara Benson on September 28, 2011 at 10:07am

and such people may be offended if a vegan label were to be placed on an item they bought 

 

Such people need to find better hobbies than getting outraged over such non-issues. 

 

The Kraft corporation is condoning religion. It is saying it is obeying the laws of God. It is processing food that follows the laws of God.

 

That's not what they're doing or saying.   They neither formulated nor processed the product to conform with the "laws of God".    It just happens to be Kosher and Halal by it's very nature, and they're making it convenient to their customers by indicating the fact on their label.  As The Nerd said, it's Capitalism.   Customers like things easy, and it's much easier to look for a symbol or simple label designating a product Kosher, Halal, vegetarian/vegan, gluten free or whatever than to painstakingly read the entire label of every product. 

 

 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by leveni on September 28, 2011 at 8:48pm

That's not what they're doing or saying.   They neither formulated nor processed the product to conform with the "laws of God".

It's really hard to find out exactly what's going on at the plant in Melbourne, where they produce Vegemite. But they have in fact changed their system to confirm to Gods laws. Also all the products that are used to make Vegemite must also follow Gods law. Not only in what those products are but how they are manufactured. So the whole process from start to finish has been changed to appease God.

Because the machines that are used to process the Vegemite, also process meat, the machines have to be cleaned before Vegemite production can begin.

I think the reason for this is:

1. Vegemite is usually spread on toast with butter, which is a dairy product, and mixing dairy with meat, isn't Kosher. 

2. The same machines also process milk products, so if a meat product is processed before or after a dairy product the whole machine becomes treif(non kosher)

Therefore the machines have to be cleaned before Vegemite production, if meat has been processed. 

If dairy has been processed before Vegemite production, it doesn't have to be cleaned, meaning Vegemite wouldn't be totally Vegan.

Also. in order for some foods to be truly Kosher, a Jew must be present the whole time during the manufacturing of the food. Whether this is the case here or not, who knows.

So these are pretty much all the facts I can ascertain.

These organizations are not certifying food for the good of all people. They are doing this for one and only one reason: to appease God. That's it.

For me, I can never support any organization that wishes to appease God.

As The Nerd said, it's Capitalism.   Customers like things easy, and it's much easier to look for a symbol or simple label designating a product Kosher, Halal, vegetarian/vegan, gluten free or whatever than to painstakingly read the entire label of every product.

I am also a consumer. And I refuse to buy anything religious. Kraft now has one less customer. Good on me. 

 

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Permalink Reply by Becca on September 27, 2011 at 10:26pm

I think you are being a little extreme here but if you don't want to eat foods labeled as kosher whatever.

 

Kosher/Halal labels are not only useful for religious people. Many people with dietary restrictions for health reasons, vegetarians, vegans and those with allergies find the labels useful too. If it costs any money to get a product certified kosher that cost is moot in terms of what the consumer pays for the product. Besides I am always in favor of foods displaying all the information they can on their labels that way the consumer if they so choose can be informed about what they are putting into their body.

 

Below is a link to the process to get the OU kosher label put on your food. Seems to me the only expenses for the company are a one time processing fee and paying for airfare for the Rabbi to come inspect the food processing plant. Not so expensive so passing off costs to the consumer isn't a good argument.

http://www.oukosher.org/index.php/basics/steps

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