Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Sentient Biped on December 9, 2012 at 3:22pm

Ditto.  I think "spiritual" is just another way of saying "feeling mellow and cozy".  Although for some, it's an effect of cannabanoids.

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Permalink Reply by Patrick F on December 8, 2012 at 9:28pm

I guess I also have a problem with the "church" part of it.  I find it odd to have sermons on a Sunday morning, etc. 

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Permalink Reply by Larry Taylor on December 8, 2012 at 11:03pm

I always felt UU church and members were just "playing" church. I agree with you Patrick.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Brice on December 8, 2012 at 11:03pm

If you absolutely, positively have to go to a church on a sunday morning........... for me it would feel weird. I tend to associate churches with religion.

When I hear of 'atheist churches' I can't help thinking of Mary Howitt's poem that starts.....

"Will you walk into my parlour?" said the spider to the fly.

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Permalink Reply by Brent Feeney on December 8, 2012 at 11:11pm

I've attended UU congregations myself (was a member of one in Urbana, IL, for a couple of years when I lived in nearby Charleston) and I've found them to be as accepting as the community I'm currently a member of, the Ethical Society of St. Louis (which is part of the Ethical Culture/Ethical Humanist movement).

I can understand where you're coming from re: "church", though. I personally identify more with the Humanist/Atheist POV but having a UU church where there's no Ethical Society nearby certainly does fill a need, IMHO. I definitely think having community is very important.

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Permalink Reply by James Kz on December 9, 2012 at 6:22am

The UU Church always struck me as "Christianity Lite."

 

The only UU Church I have ever been in (once, back when I was a Wiccan) was on the east side of Jacksonville, Fla.

 

If you can trust Wikipedia's article on Unitarian-Universalism, the church consists roughly of 20% Christians. They ostensibly welcome such people as atheists and Wiccans (through their pagan outreach programme CUUPS), but the point of getting you in the door is the same as any other church.

 

Unitarians from New England are descended from the Congregational Church (the Puritans). Unitarians from NE rejected the literal reading of the Bible and the "elect" who would get into heaven dogma of the Puritans. The remainder after the split became the United Church of Christ, a well-known all inclusive group.

Their services are primarily structured around Protestant church services.

 

Christian Universalists started way back in 1793 and taught a universal salvation by Christ.

They are much like an airy-fairy New Age religion in many respects, but still have a creed which is a "non-creed," their Seven Principles.

In 2004 they specifically went for proselytisation, asking for "elevator speeches" (pitches that could be made for the UU Church in the course of an elevator ride to "educate" others about the UU Church). The idea is no different than door-knocking Evangelicals: they are inserting their beliefs into your space.

The beliefs in spirituality, holding that no particular religion has a lock on truth (except them of course, as that statement is a direct challenge to the claim of most religions), and the seven principles identify the UU Church as not rational. They are no more rational than any other gnostic religious belief (they know and believe that other religions do not have a lock on truth). The idea of spirituality and the "connexion of life" is not rational.

The Seven Principles, while containing admirable goals, are still religious in nature and not secular:

We, the member congregations of the Unitarian Universalist Association, covenant to affirm and promote

• The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
• Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
• Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
• A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
• The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
• The goal of world community with peace, liberty and justice for all;
• Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

 

Today the UU church still holds to the idea of finding "truth" and "spirituality," thus they are no more rational than any other church, other than not being dogmatic by not having a particular creed.

 

Essentially they folded all together to form the present church.

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Permalink Reply by Future on December 9, 2012 at 9:37am

A few months ago I caught Ben Harper's first solo appearance in his career at one of my favorite venues - Wolftrap. He's one of my favorite musicians, though some of his lyrics are a bit spiritual, which made me curious about his level of religiosity. He is known for being concerned about getting the best possible sound out of his instruments, recordings and live events. Wolftrap is an amazing amphitheatre, and he was shocked at the perfect acoustics of the venue, having never had even heard of the place before that night. He made the statement that the place had the acoustics of a church ... and then he apologized for insulting the venue with the "church" reference, to a loud applause from the crowd. If you are godless or spiritual, the word "church" typically doesn't carry a positive connotation. It belongs in the realm of religion.

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Permalink Reply by Ted Foureagles on December 9, 2012 at 10:50am

There's a pretty good UU fellowship here in Greenville, SC.  As you might expect in such a location, it tends toward a Christian-like flavor just by demographic, but at least it's a venue for local freethinkers who crave a church-ish structure.  I'm an old hermit with no particular need for active social connections, and am so not a member, though Dear Li'l Sis (who leads the Rainbow Committee) and her son are.  I do some pro-bono architectural work for them because I think that they're good people and deserve it.  I'll occasionally go to their events, largely because they usually feature free beer & wine.

 

I was once asked to guest host one of their discussion groups (called covenant circles) and direct the topic.  I chose superstition, and it was a good & lively conversation.  We freely gave & took offense, and mostly agreed that we'd all learned something from one another.  That's no small thing in a local culture very much imbued with strict biblical literalist dogma!  Doing something similar in a Southern Baptist congregation probably wouldn't result in actual burning at the stake, but would undoubtedly bring social shunning.  Those who have not grown up under the thumb of something like the KKK or Taliban might misunderestimate :) the gravity of being shunned by the Tribe, which is close to a social death sentence.  Unis refuse to do that on general principal, and for that I respect them.

 

I don't like what seems to be the UU assumption of doctrinal relativism -- I think that some ideas are clearly more valid than others.  Perhaps their take is that such assumptions are sort of an epistemological tax necessary for a functioning society.  As I said, I'm a hermit who doesn't really get that point.

 

}}}}

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Permalink Reply by Napoleon Bonaparte on December 9, 2012 at 4:17pm

Hey, why don't you UU people join my church instead ?

I hav'ent got a church right now but I will make one up for you, if you show interest.

It should prove financially rewarding to be minister of my own church and I'm looking forward to the challenge.

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Permalink Reply by T Andrew Klatt on December 13, 2012 at 10:38am

I used to tease my wife that UU churches were for atheists who haven’t figured out that it’s okay to sleep in on Sundays. We are both atheists. However, over the course of time I have found, as many of you may have, that my need for community or fellowship, if you prefer, with like hearted (are UU’s really like-minded? No two UU’s that I have ever met seem to think alike) people is real. Human beings organize ourselves socially and we need companionship.
My congregation is largely Atheists, Humanist with a sprinkling of Buddhism. It suits my way of thinking and has allowed me to meet and befriend many delightful people. I’ve learned that just because I’m a non-theist it doesn’t eliminate my desire to celebrate life with a “spiritual” (I hate this word- so antihuman) zeal and mark the landmarks of life – birth, death, marriage and such. I suppose this makes me more of a religious humanist than a plan secular one.
I thrive when I’m immersed in community. I belong to a local humanist organization, but like so many atheist and humanist groups the meetings are, at best, monthly. My UU congregation gives me ample opportunities to fulfill my need for purposeful companionship.

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Permalink Reply by James Kz on December 13, 2012 at 10:48am

I get the communal fellowship here, at Atheist Nexus.

I live so far out in the middle of nowhere that tumbleweeds have a fifteen mile run to hit anything other than a cow.

For in-person community, I have my village in Nebraska. For rough and tumble politics, I have the village board. For a break from Christianity's dead hand around my throat, I also have this place.

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Permalink Reply by Sentient Biped on December 13, 2012 at 10:52am

Pretty funny line about the tumbleweeds.

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