Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Susan Stanko on February 3, 2011 at 8:23am

You are again assuming that friends and family are in any position to help.

Permalink Reply by MCT on February 3, 2011 at 8:26am

SS,

Well, sorry reality necessitates that life takes work. The truly disabled will be taken care of by those who care or they won't. It still doesn't make theft right.

Permalink Reply by Susan Stanko on February 3, 2011 at 9:16am

Do you know who makes up the majority of the homeless population?  The mentally ill.  Why?  because mental health facilities are closing left and right.  So basically, you are saying that if you can't take care of yourself "sucks to be you"

 

From Wikipedia: 

This power is considered by many to be essential to the administering of government. As argued under the Articles, the lack of a power to tax renders government ineffectual. Typically, the power is used to raise revenues for the support of government.

Permalink Reply by Joseph P on February 3, 2011 at 9:36am

Taxation is not theft.  That's exactly the sort of dogma I'm talking about.  The entire Libertarian position is based upon moral absolutes and does nothing to take into account results.  I don't give a damn about your moral absolutes, if the society they end up creating is complete shit.

Permalink Reply by MCT on February 3, 2011 at 11:36am

Forced taxation is theft. Seriously, be reasonable. Taking money from someone against their will at the threat of incarceration is theft.

Permalink Reply by TK on February 3, 2011 at 8:43pm

Taxation is a form of theft.  I need a new office.  Can I go around collecting money from people in my neighborhood through threat of imprisonment or death?  I think I'd be hitting the slammer if I did.  Why is it different when the "state" does it then when a citizen does it.  I'm willing and able to pay taxes, but not for things I don't agree with.  I do it because the IRS will come to my house with guns if I don't.  They've got a lot more people and guns then I do.  I can't show up at someone's house with a gun to get the things I need.  Well without going to prison for armed robbery.  

Permalink Reply by TK on February 3, 2011 at 9:14pm

Once again you can't discuss a topic without resorting to name calling.

Permalink Reply by Joseph P on February 3, 2011 at 10:04pm

@John D

• When did this site get bombed by Utopian dingbats?  It makes me ill.

It's atheism in general.  My local group has a bit of an infestation problem.  We've fragmented into two groups, because of it.  The Libertarians can't seem to restrain themselves from turning any message board topic into a reason to preach about Libertarianism.

Permalink Reply by Jim DePaulo on February 6, 2011 at 3:53pm

Taxes are the price we pay for civilization.  It's an obligation of a responsible citizen.  But the taxation must be equitable - those who derive the greatest financial benefits from the society should have the greater taxation burden.

Permalink Reply by Joseph P on February 2, 2011 at 9:43pm

Well, that's where the Socialist system is better than the Libertarian one.  Rich people benefit from our society, so they can damned well contribute to help out society as a whole.  Once they're rich, they're able to manipulate the system and keep themselves on top, and we need something to help prevent them from screwing over the society that helped them get to the top of the heap.

 

If you can't see that, then I don't know how to reach you.  I just have to fall back on being grateful that you guys are too insignificant a percentage of the population to gain control.

Permalink Reply by TK on February 2, 2011 at 9:55pm

A system where individual rights are not upheld is not a just or moral one.  I should not be forced to subsidize someone elses stupidity, individual or business.  The idea that an individual or business is so valuable to the system that we would subsidize their life style or business goes against the very free market system.  That's the same nonsense they sold us to bail out wall street.  If a business is too big to fail, we need to enforce antitrust and monopoly legislation.

 

I think a government that protects individual liberty will protect the people.  The whole issue is that our government is influenced by the rich because they aren't in the business of just protecting individual liberty.  If they were, the rich would be able to exert a lot less influence on the government.  The root here is campaign finance and the view that a corporation or business is an individual.  Once we get away from that absurd notion, we will start to move in a positive direction.

Permalink Reply by MCT on February 2, 2011 at 10:22pm

JP,

Even if I hated society and wanted it to fail, as long as I don't directly harm another, it is immoral for you to force me to do anything. We humans are smart and can prosper without bullying someone for assitance. It really is a matter of whether you have pride and confidence in the indominable 'spirit' of humans or you think we are weak little sheep that need help. A society based on need is pathetic. A society based on hard work and self-sufficiency is noble. Either way, government should keep those who violate another's rights in check.

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