1 Corinthians 2: 2: For I determined not
to know any thing among you, save Jesus
Christ, and him crucified.
Surah 4: 157: That they said in boast ‘we
killed Christ Isa, the son of Mary’…but
they killed him not, nor crucified him.
The Bible says that Jesus was crucified, Quran says that he was not crucified. There are controversies about Jesus, including one that he did not exist t all. Quran says he existed alright. What is the truth about him? Atheists who have Not been christians will want to know.
Agreed! If people would spend as much time each day reading a textbook on math or science, or working at perfecting some type of skill as they do reading a bible, koran, etc., the U.S. would have the most educated populace in the Western world.
It's a shame people can't rule out the existence of a supernature* in their minds. Consequently, they believe these writings are dictated or transcribed by a supernatural being. The word of god.
This is where I get off the train. We already emphasize training people in math and science rather than guiding them to real education, i.e., the ability to study and comprehend philosophy, history, literature, ethics, religion, and rhetoric, to weigh intangibles and draw logical--but provisional--conclusions. Universities were once centers of learning; now they are centers for training. Instead of learning to think for themselves, instead of being developed as autodidacts who can--and want to--continue to learn, students are spoon fed facts and skills, then graded on how well they have memorized the requisite facts or skills. They have become the perfect prey of advertisers, politicians, preachers, and charlatans of every kind, sheep awaiting the rod and staff of the shepherd.
Since the Quran didn't come along until 600 years or so after Jesus' supposed life and death, it's doubtful that it would contain any new information about the crucifixion. Jewish writers, starting just a few hundred years after Jesus, began writing alternate stories of the life of Jesus, even going so far as to blame his birth on an illicit affair with a Roman centurion. Some Jewish writers have pointed out that many of the supposed Jewish customs, such as releasing violent prisoners at Passover, never existed. Thus it would have been unlikely that Pontius Pilate would have released any condemned prisoner to the mob of Jews in Jerusalem.
Your answer is informative. I knew about the accusation about the birth of Jesus by an illicit affair, but the Quran completely absolves Mary of any wrongdoing of the sort, but says that Jesus was not cricified. This raises questions in my mind. From your reply it appears that Jesus was crucified.
Yes. I was aware of this. When I said "new information about the crucifixion" I meant exculpatory evidence too.
Since Roman historical evidence shows they were crucifing humans as far back as 900BCE - it appears Jesus is one of hundreds of thousands. In fact, the description of Jesus and his execution lasted a few short hours. He got off easy and Christians wailing and weeping over his 'suffering' is lame.
Most took days to die. No one ever says a thing about a single one of these 'other' humans - it's always about Jesus. Christians love making a really big deal about just one man's death and never say a single word about all the rest.
This shows their true love, peace and compassion as far as I'm concerned.
It's pretty unlikely that the Sanhedrin would hold a trial during Passover, too.
The Qur'an is a mish-mash compiled over 23 years as Mohammed "received" new "revelations" from the "angel," i.e., as new problems arose or as he thought of new rules to add, he made up new divine revelations. One these revelations allows him, as the Prophet, to have 14 wives rather than the 4 to which all other men were limited. Jesus actually makes an appearance in the Qur'an, popping in just long enough to say that he himself was "by no means" divine or the son of God. It's really just one man's invention.
Mad, I hope you're not serious about this Bible/Koran stuff.
It reminds me of a line from my book, Mirror Reversal.
“Glad to help. But I’m not into philosophy that much. I like the line of the palaeontologist, G. Gaylord Simpson, that anything written about philosophy or religion before 1859 is essentially worthless. That’s the year Darwin published The Origin of Species."
The Holy Scriptures were definitely written before 1859, so that means the worldview of the authors was distorted and perverted by mythological nonsense. In other words, they didn't have a clue.
I do not understand where did you got the idea about my being serious. The Quran takes trouble to clear Mary, mother of Jesus, to clear of any immoral behaviour with regards to birth of Jesus but claims that Jesus was not crucified. The religious faithfuls would certainly deny this Quranic claim, so I want know what atheists think about it. My name is Madhukar and that is how everybody addresses me.
I think what Richard is getting at is whether you actually believe the Quran is a source of truth or not. This is a site for atheists. There are plenty of places where believers and non-believers can hang out and discuss theology, but Atheist Nexus has always been a place for non-believers, by non-believers... only.
I hope you are not asking whether I am an atheist or not? ( I am joking!)