this is why i am an atheist. long ago a friend died, and i had to try figure out why. i was still a mild believer. my grandma had repeatedly fed me the mantra, god is love. so why wud a just, benevolent god, who is love, create this world, filled as it is with evil? thats my question.

nother query. how many of you were turned to atheism by this?

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yes. domination christians believe the just before jebus cums again israel will convert to jebusism. a significant number of these idiots stri-ongly support israel. i personally disparage israel. not a people, but a nation.and ill keep this thread up as long as its digestable and doesnt getr too far aff track.

ha ha ha seems that its pretty far aff track now tho....

You disparage Israel as a nation, and my murdered relatives are crying, for all they suffered just because of the fact that they were born Jewish. Those of you who were brought up Christian haven't a CLUE about what life as a Jew was during all the centuries of Christian persecution, only culminating with Hitler, who did NOTHING that hadn't been done before, only he did it on a grander scale. I'll start a different thread.

israel is a nation with policies with which i do not agree. thus i disparage it. if the policies change, i will approve.  not a clue? because i was brought up as a christian? oh so im now being stereotyped. ive made no claims to knowlege of your culture. what does israel have to do with your murdered relatives? if you are referring to the holocaust, that ended in '45.  israel wasn't founded untill '48.

let me state that i have enuff empathy to understand that the holocaust was one of the driving forces for the creation of israel. the desire for there own nation was overwhelming. however this does not excuse the actions of that state.

I agree with you that Israel doesn't always act in its own best interests, let alone the interest of the Palestinians. But what I was taking issue with was your statement that you disparage Israel as a nation, which means that you dislike (not sure of your usage of the word disparage) all the people in the Israeli nation, which is a totally different thing from disliking what the government is doing.

I also feel that the Palestinian Authority and Hamas often don't do what is in the best interest of their people, but that doesn't stop me from respecting the rights of Palestinians as individuals, and admiring the good people that are among them.

ok let me clarify. i disparage and disagree with most of the recent actions of the government of israel. i  realiize that a little under half of the people of israel agreed with me during the last election. however, i did not say i disparaged any of the people of israel.  i do not. they are all individuals. as individuals, their actions are caused by various influences.disliking a nation is different from disliking the people who live there.

im fully aware that many governments act as you say not in their best interests, including my own, and i disparage it too. ha ha ha i just realized im not sure what disparage means anyway.

Carl, You may not know what desparage means, but how do you distinguish between the people and their country? You probably mean the government when you say 'country'. Am I right?

i said government

Carl, for you, does disliking a nation differ from disliking a nation's actions or policies? Do you enjoy spreading ambiguity?

Disparage? Think diss, or dis.

ok i dis amurka, the usa, my countree tis of thee, under gawd. i dis it for stupidity, for blatant killing of its own citizens, for killing people of other nations, and for disregarding its own laws.

is that ok? is that ambiguous?

i dunno bout you guys but i often hearpeople say they dont lkike america. these people are my friends, they like me, im an american. so i can figgur our that they by hitting on my nation arent hitting on me.

tom, was i writing a book a=or a disertation? i thot i wasa talking with friends. in addition, ive often heard this statement, "the Al quiada crashed airplanes into the WTC",  ive never heard anyone say some people in the al quaida crashed airplanes.

now you got me wondering if israel will be the next "N" word.

what does israel have to do with your murdered relatives? if you are referring to the holocaust, that ended in '45.

Carl, your reply is insensitive. You have seen in these discussions here at AN that athiests who had been Christians are still crying about Christianity's ancient evils. The memories of the holocaust are still fresh, close relatives of people living today have been killed in a most insensitive manner. Even a distant person like me shudders after seeing a picture of the Auschwitz gas chamber. Have you seen it Carl? See  it and read the description of humanities most shameful acts. The people that were killed in crusades were at lest killed by a sword, the tortures of inquisitions were nothing compared with the tortures of Hitlers concentration camps. Any person who has some knowledge of the most shameful human attrocities could not write what you have written, Carl.


"Carl, your reply is insensitive."

Madhukar, it's more accurate to say insensitivity does not reside in words, but readers' sensitivities result in their reactions to words.

I tell you that for two reasons.

1. I was once an xian and here you are saying that I'm still crying.

2. You appear to have little or no experience with what is required of professionals (doctors, lawyers, scholars and more) when they have to deal with horrid circumstances.

The Holocaust was indeed horrid. Had the judges at the Nuremberg trials allowed their emotional responses to shape their judgements, revenge would have been taken but we, the world, would not now have the International Criminal Court. (That America's leaders refuse to accept the ICC's jurisdiction shames most Americans.)

I once told a police officer acquaintance that I would have difficulty approaching a car I'd stopped, not knowing if the driver would turn on me with a question ("Why did you stop me?") or with a gun.

He told me I should not be a police officer.

His words were not insensitive. Knowing they were true, I reacted with calm.


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