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The Gospel of Truth
We have some evidence that the Europeans around the time of the building of the Great Pyramid knew as much mathematics and astronomy as the Egyptians in the form of Stonehenge and then later in the form of the Neblar skydisk(a picture and account of it was mentioned by me on this blog; it shouldn't be too far down the blog right now!). But, for whatever reason, the mesopotamian, Egyptian, and Hittite civilizations were to become the leading force for the future of humanity. This is perhaps especially weird considering that before 1000B.C. all those civilizations mysteriously(still for the most part . . . a mystery) suffered a major collapse and a dark ages. I've mentioned this before when talking about the Minoans. Them and Troy and the Egyptians of their middle period, that was the era before what we would consider the classical Greeks and at the same time the growth of the Hebrews. As I've mentioned before, there seems to be a close association between the Minoans and the Phoenicians, and it seems the Phoenicians started our alphabetical language style; a language style taken up by both the Greeks and the Hebrews. I've posted a youtube about the latest archaeology of the Hebrews before, but I'm going to point out some of what they say in that youtube, and then get into some of my latest readings about the New Testament.
The Bible says the Israelites came out of Egypt. Well, i don't want to totally refute that, but I do want to suggest it was a little bit more complicated than that! For starters, 'Israel' . . . Is ra el. Is is Issis, a persian god. Ra is an Egyptian god, and El is a Phoenician god(In fact, God is translated in Hebrew as Elohim; also, Lord is translated as Adonai a summarian god). When for whatever reason the civilizations went into a dark ages around 1200 B.C., a whole bunch of surrounding peoples seemed to flow into the canaanite lands in between the Hittites(Persians) in the north, and the Egyptians in the south. Israel seems to me to suggest that a bunch of peoples came together there and mixed.
I want to show some interesting biblical evidence for two things here; sungod worship by both the Egyptians and the very earliest Hebrews, and that there is some connection between the Hebrews and the Egyptians(I've already suggested this is a little bit more complicated than the bible would show it or that most people would think). Basically, there's some comparison between the Hymn to Akhenaten and Psalm 104. http://kemet.250x.com/psalm104.html Seems to me the changes from the Hyman to Akenaten to the biblical Psalm 104 is a great reflection of the time in between their writing. The amount of times it was told, it obviously changed over time.
The first mention of Israelites seems to be around 1100 B.C. These Israelites seem to have grown quite rich. I should back up here actually. It should be noted that there was a northern rich agricultural lands that was called Israel, and a poor lower highlands called Judah. The northerners seemed to be rich for awhile. But, eventually, some aggresive Mesopotamian Assyrians destroyed them. When this happened, some of the Israelites moved south into Judah. But, it wasn't for two hundred years that Judah didn't become a powerfull state around 700 B.C. There seems to be much scriptural evidence for this date as when the torah of the Old Testament was first formed. For one, there is much mention of Abraham riding around on camels; archaeological evidence shows that Camels only became domesticated around 700B.C. A lot of the place names of the surrounding other cultures were only in existence around this time(like the Emobites). Also, those peoples conflicts with each other and with the Judahites has been shown by archaeology to have only taken place around 700 B.C.(i'm mostly talking about the descriptions of peoples mentioned in the book of Genesis). In Genesis 25:23 two nations are born in the womb of a woman.
Why was the Torah really first composed around 700 b.c.? I'd like to mention a couple more quotes from the Bible. In 2Kings 22:8-23:24, High Priest Hilkiah miraculously finds the torah in his back room(kind of convenient, ha!?), and in Genesis 49:8-10, it is said that Judah is to be the center of the world really; it says the skeptre shall never depart Judah. Considering all the detailing of the peoples politics with one another(in an allegorical way) and that whoever wrote that the Sceptre shall never depart Judah, it should be quite clear what the Old testament for oen is . . . a political pamphlet. While Thales is busy touring the great learning centers of the Mesopotamians and Egyptians, the Judahites are declaring themselves the chosen ones.
When Judah became a fullfledged state, a division of labor to the level of allowing an educated class of scribes, a government to govern agriculture and a military, was as I said before two hundred years after Israel(really the Omrides who were not viewed by the Judahites very well because they were rich at the time . . . 900 B.C. . . and the Judahites weren't; i hope to get back to this point!) was destroyed. When they got around to composing their political pamphlet, there were ruins everywhere - far and near. What to make of it all? Of course, King Soloman must have built all these ruins(they were Omride, an Israelite dynasty), and, where did we come from? Of course, we must have come from Egypt! How could we have done that? There must have been a parting of the seas! I want to stress here something about the way humans think here. I mean, we have to figure things out from our current perspective. This is what Jacob Bronowski is trying to say in his "Origins of Knowledge and Imagination." I mean when we first started out trying to understand the stars, we thought the earth was the center of the universe and flat(most ancient people); we'd make up our mathematics accordingling; Everyone from Eudoxus to Ptolemy would explain the motions of the planets by making epicycles upon epicycles no matter how unweildy the final contraption. Just like our first thoughts about the sun, stars, and planets going around the immovable Earth, the Judahites made sense of their surroundings and predicaments from their current perspective or time and space.
Here's an interesting biblical point about the Judahites p0litics compared to the northern Israelites . . . 2kings14:9, the Israelite king calls the Judahite king a thistle who goes to Lebanon for help because they can't take care of themselves.
About that Exodus . . . well, there appears to have been an exodus of Hyksos around 1570 B.c. They went into canaan and all; but, this is over a hundred years earlier than when the Bibical exodus is suppose to have happened. In fact, during the supposed biblical exodus, Egypt was enjoying a resurgence of power(before the coming of the mysterious sea peoples . . . Minoans who were to settle down as Phoenicians? . . . and the coming resulting dark ages); this was the time Abu Simble and the great columns at Karnak were built. At that time, Egypt was more powerfull than ever; they built because of the Hyksos walls manned by armies that would travel up and down these walls; they had gates, and they had scribes who would keep track of the comings and goings of those who would go through those gates; guess what? There's no mention of an Exodus at this time.
I'll leave the whole thing(I think; i mean my plans for this posting is to be a rather big post!)about the Exodus with a curious repeat of the exodus story in other parts of the bible. There's Joshua 3:13 through, 2kings 2:8 and 2:14! I mean two right next to each other! It just seems like parting of seas was a literary trick used to overcome any kind of trouble that could stand in their way!
There's plenty more to say about the inaccuracies of the Old testament. But, I'd like to point out some of the various things mentioned. Things like how the Patriarches would take the gods away from poor little locals, Genesis 31:30, God hardens hearts Exodus 4:2-1, 7:4-5, Deut 2:30; this one, God hardens some tribeman's heart so that Moses has to strike him down. He does it again at Joshua 11:20. The exodus passages has God hardening the heart of the Egyptian Pharoh.
After all the above, in Dueteronomy has the ten commandments in chapter 5. What are these ten commandments? They are, I'm a jealous god, don't worship other gods(what? I thought there was only one god? Smooth move their god . . . oops, or is that Elohim? Yea, it's Elohim!). Then, it's don't kill your mother; i'm being facetious here, but, the point is that after four plus books of some of the most barbaric writing(and reading), god asking for burnt offerings, jews in sinai eating a halluecegenic mushroom(I've posted a video not to long ago about how manna from heaven is a mushroom), and all the passages mentioned above, the great cosmic wisesaying from the all powerfull, all wise god is . . . don't rape your mother. Anything else on your mind there god? Well, here's one . . . in 1Samuel chapter 8:10-22, Samuel offers democracy, but the people and ultimately God shouts him down; no, we want to be judged by you Samuel!
Something I havn't confirmed is that the chronicles books are midrash(one could say rehash) of the kings and Samuel books. It's well known that the Epic of Gilgamesh is a flood story and the Judahites basically used it. Perhaps less well known is that the ten commandments are taken right out of the Egyptian book of the dead. Some other things I havn't gotten around to comfirming yet(i'm actually hoping that by making this post, I can finally put this whole religion thing to rest for a good long time! Hence, why I'm putting it all in one big post! There's just so much that one could spend the rest of your life reading and confirming all this archaeology, linguistics, and comparative religion!) is that the Psalms and Proverbs seem to be strikingling similar to the surrounding Mesopotamian civilizations writings as well. I'm pointing all this out because I'm now going to start pointing out a bunch of stuff about the New Testament.
Sorry to say(hate to waste your time!), but I'm having a hard time figuring out where to start! My whole point about the Judahites and the Greeks both taking on the Phoenician alphabet comes into full force here. Both of them used their natural language alphabets for their number symbolism as well. This is what scholars call 'Gematria.' Gematria goes back to Plato really. Plato tried to mathematically calculate love, hate, and morality from numbers and geometry. He started this tradition which went on for almost a thousand years really . . . right into the Gospel of John and his Jesus Christ is the 'word' of god. On the Jewish side of this was actally King Josiah around 622 B.C. He was considered of the Davidic line. The religion . . . basically Dueteronomy . . . was that he was to lead them to the future. Well, a Pharoh cut him down, and the Jews had to rethink their religion; they did so while in exile in Babylon. All the prophet literature like Isaiah, Zechariah and so on come about around this time. Their literature was used by somebody, we don't really know who definitively to misrash first the Gospel of Mark. But, that's still getting ahead of the story. I can't help asking a question about Jesus and the Davidic line here though. How is Jesus Christ of the Davidic line if he was born of a virgin?
I think I'm going to shorten things here a little bit. There's lots of mention of mystery schools in ancient literature. What are they? There's some good guesses i think, but the truth is we shall never really know because they apparently were considered a secret. Once initiated, you were not allowed to tell the outside world the goings on inside these mystery schools as revealed by a passage of Herodotus, book 2, chapter 61 of the "Histories"(de silencourt translation), in which he essentially says that he's not allowed to say what the mysteries are. The mysteries were a secret on pain of death; this is why the christians were persecuted in the early first millenium; because they were revealing mysteries; they were making them 'flesh'. In a revealing passage by Barnabas, a kind of right hand man who followed Paul and continued Paul's efforts, we see why people like Barnabas and Paul were trying to make up a new really sungod . . .
"then he clearly manifested himself to be the son of god. For had he not come in the flesh, how should men have been able looked upon him, that they might be saved?"
This is in the Epistle of Barnabas chapter 4:13-14. The very next passage is full of sungod talk suggesting exactly what Jesus Christ is . . . a sungod. Jesus Christ is the son of god, that is . . . the 'Sun' of of God.
I'd like to get back to the whole 'the mysteries were a secret' point for a second. Herodotus was writing in the four hundreds B.C. time frame. So for those hundreds of years, there were Sungods of Dionysius and the Egyptian(the Egyptian sungods goes back to Ra and thousands of years before the Greeks), yet, we can't say much about them. Actually, we can, but it's kind of hard to dig it all up, translate it all and present it all; you kind of have to go to Egypt for one to do it; and, I'm in no position to do so right now. This is why I'm for the most part going to skip right along to Paul and and his epistles and show some highlights there. To say the least, there's all kinds of Egyptian artwork of horus being born of a virgin on the walls of the great Egyptian temples; but, there's also a whole bunch of papyrus found in the sarcofocus's of egyptians for hundreds of years prior to the supposed birth and life of Jesus Christ; these papyrus have been scrutinzed and found most revealing of an Egyptian religion that had a sungod(variously Osirus or Horus) that was born of a virgin, had twelve disciples and did similar miriacles and so on. Outside of these revealing archaeological relics in an otherwise dark and shut off age, I'm going to present an interesting passage from Virgil.
Well, actually a few things. One is a passage from a Julian calendar dated 9 B.C. . .
"The Providence which rules over all has filled this man with such gifts for the salvation of the world as designated him as savior for us and for the coming generations; of wars he will make an end, and establish all things worthily. By his appearing are the hopes of our forefathers fulfilled; not only has he surpassed the good deeds of earlier times, but it is impossible that one greater than he can ever appear. The birthday of God has brought to the world glad tidings that are bound up in him. From his birthday a new era begins."
Now for the Virgil passage from his "Eclogue 4",
"Come are those last days that the Sybil sang: The ages' might march begins anew. Now comes the virgin, Saturn reigns again: now from high heaven descends a wondrous race. Thou on the newborn babe-who first shall end . . . That age of iron, bid a golden dawn . . . Upon the broud world-chaste Lucina, smile: Now thy Apollo reigns."
This passage would be dated around 37 B.C. Clearly, people from all walks of life whether Jewish, Greek, or Roman were looking for a coming Messiah. Recently, there was found a ink printed stone 'dead sea scroll' which revealed a Jesus Christ before Jesus Christ. This "Revelation of Gabriel" speaks of a Simon who was resurrected after three days. The truth is there were many people around the first century B.C. who were willing to sacrifice their lives(just like the human bombs of today in the middle east!) to be the coming Messiah. This "Revelation of Gabriel" stone tablet has been dated into the first century B.C.
I really don't have to go much further; but, there's just some goodies I've gots to get down here!.
Most people would start any discussion of the New Testament with the Gospels, perhaps Matthew. But, any real New Testament scholar knows that the Pauline epistles came first. That's clue enough that the Gospels were made up; they were made up after the Pauline epistles! Now, for some stuff found in the Pauline Epistles.
Paul says many times that he gets his ideas that there was a Christ(usually, he doesn't even mention Jesus Christ, but a Christ) 'from scripture.' Romans 1:2 and 1Corinthians 15:3-4 are two that I'll mention. It's mentioned many times throughout the new testament really.
Paul is actually in competition with others . . . one an Apollo from Alexandria. He and other groups have make up tests to test whether these others are speaking something significant. Apparently, there's tests made up to test people like Paul if they're authentic or not in Dideche Chapter 11. An example in the New testament is 1John4:1. Of course, it's mentioned many times throughout the New Testament that there's others preaching their own version of a coming messiah. The Jews for one are said in the Gospels to not really believe that Jesus Christ is the coming Messiah. The thing about Paul is that he's claiming authority because he's innovated this idea of 'deriving from scripture.' "Deriving from Scripture' seems to be a Paul innovation. Any sensible person would look up these passages and realize this is not really mathematical derivation. Yes, he derived it from scripture, but this 'midrash' process is not really mathematics. It's poetry at best. Apparently, back then, people didn't realize this. But, let me give some more!
Hebrews 7:1-3 mentions a Melchizadek who is similar to Jesus Christ; why? Because he's derived from scripture . . . in this case, Genesis 14:18-20. Basically, Melchizek is kind of pre-new testament Jesus Christ long before Jesus Christ, and he makes an appearance in this earliest of Pauline epistle because he was an early model for Jesus Christ.
In 1Corinthians15:5-8, Jesus is first seen by a Cephas, then of the twelve, and then by . . . five hundred people! This is two thirds quite contrary to the Gospel accounts.
Isaia 7:14 says a lord shall be born of a virgin and called Immanual. The Gospel of Matthewe quotes this even calling Jesus Christ Emannuel.
There's a lot more that could be mentioned of course, but, I thought I'd mention this one and Jesus coming from Nazareth.
Zechariah 9:9 seems to be the midrash for Jesus coming into Jerusalem on an ass . . . or a colt . . . or both depending on which gospel you read! They all read this scripture a different way, and Jesus is hence made to come in Jerusalem sometimes on one, sometimes on another, and sometimes on both at the same time!
Well, one more, Psalm 22, "God why have you forsaken me?"
Jesus in Mark is made to come from Nazareth by scripture(I forget the scriptural reference; maybe I'll come back and edit this later on; i just want to post this now!). Well, as it turns out, modern archaeology shows that there was no city of Nazareth during the supposed life of Jesus Christ! In fact, there was no city for hundreds of years after the supposed life of Jesus Christ! In the other gospels, Jesus Christ is made to come from Bethleham . . . again, derived from Scripture; only, modern archaeology shows there was no temples built to Jesus Christ then or hundreds of years after the supposed life of Jesus Christ!
The remarkable thing about the references above about the Julian calendar and Virgil and all is that after the birth of Jesus Christ, you would expect a hugh amount of literature and artwork all around the mediterraenean about Jesus Christ performing miracles, and the word of the Gospel coming quickly. But, instead, out of hundreds of historians of the time period, the dead sea scrolls that go from b.c. time period to 100 A.D., to the christian catacombs, there is zero mention of Jesus Christ. Instead, you see Hermes in the catacombs and all kinds of other sungods.
And, why do we see all kinds of other forms of christianity being formed hundreds of years after the supposed life of Jesus Christ if the facts were clear from the very start?
And perhaps finaly, why is Jesus Christ made to be born when he is so made? The Gospels give no date. I suggest that due to a Greek mathematical scientist Hipparchus who discoverd the precession of the equinoxes before 100 B.C, people knew that the end of the age of the Lamb was coming. Jesus Christ is to be the coming of the age of the Pises. The sungods go through the twelve constellations(hence the twelve disciples of christ; all the previous sungods had twelve something . . . sometimes like the twelve things to do for Hercules). Because the earth is tilted, it's north pole is pointed at the north star; but, because it's tilt wobbles or changes, the north pole is pointing to different parts of the sky; and, the constellations come up in different times of the years over thousands of years. Hipparchus discovered this lets say before he died in 120 B.C. It's known that the mithras sungod took on this phenomenon to bring in the new age of aquarius(hence John the Baptist is the constellation of Aquarius). Basically, the transition from the age of the ram to the age of the pises is around the same time that Jesus Christ is born. This whole bringing on of the new age must have been well known around this time, hence the above passage from the julian calendar.
I'd like to finish by saying that my researches in all this bible stuff shows me that from the rules of ethics of the ten commandments to the sungods, gematria, and midrash shows that everyone from the Judahites to the various mystery religions were trying to make a kind of mathematical religion. To make things short, their idea of a mathematical religion is a kind of Ptolemaic mathematical religion. Eudoxus to Ptolemy made a mathematical science of the motions of the stars and planets; but, they're ideas were drawn from wrong assumptions - that of the earth centered viewpoint which is the natural beginning perspective of all humans. In a similar way, christianity and all the sungod religions before it were a kind of Ptolemaic religion; they drew from unquestioned assumptions. These assumptions were about taking the mystery of the universe at face value. These sungod religions are ultimately a play on ignorance.
The Bible says the Israelites came out of Egypt. Well, i don't want to totally refute that, but I do want to suggest it was a little bit more complicated than that! For starters, 'Israel' . . . Is ra el. Is is Issis, a persian god. Ra is an Egyptian god, and El is a Phoenician god(In fact, God is translated in Hebrew as Elohim; also, Lord is translated as Adonai a summarian god). When for whatever reason the civilizations went into a dark ages around 1200 B.C., a whole bunch of surrounding peoples seemed to flow into the canaanite lands in between the Hittites(Persians) in the north, and the Egyptians in the south. Israel seems to me to suggest that a bunch of peoples came together there and mixed.
I want to show some interesting biblical evidence for two things here; sungod worship by both the Egyptians and the very earliest Hebrews, and that there is some connection between the Hebrews and the Egyptians(I've already suggested this is a little bit more complicated than the bible would show it or that most people would think). Basically, there's some comparison between the Hymn to Akhenaten and Psalm 104. http://kemet.250x.com/psalm104.html Seems to me the changes from the Hyman to Akenaten to the biblical Psalm 104 is a great reflection of the time in between their writing. The amount of times it was told, it obviously changed over time.
The first mention of Israelites seems to be around 1100 B.C. These Israelites seem to have grown quite rich. I should back up here actually. It should be noted that there was a northern rich agricultural lands that was called Israel, and a poor lower highlands called Judah. The northerners seemed to be rich for awhile. But, eventually, some aggresive Mesopotamian Assyrians destroyed them. When this happened, some of the Israelites moved south into Judah. But, it wasn't for two hundred years that Judah didn't become a powerfull state around 700 B.C. There seems to be much scriptural evidence for this date as when the torah of the Old Testament was first formed. For one, there is much mention of Abraham riding around on camels; archaeological evidence shows that Camels only became domesticated around 700B.C. A lot of the place names of the surrounding other cultures were only in existence around this time(like the Emobites). Also, those peoples conflicts with each other and with the Judahites has been shown by archaeology to have only taken place around 700 B.C.(i'm mostly talking about the descriptions of peoples mentioned in the book of Genesis). In Genesis 25:23 two nations are born in the womb of a woman.
Why was the Torah really first composed around 700 b.c.? I'd like to mention a couple more quotes from the Bible. In 2Kings 22:8-23:24, High Priest Hilkiah miraculously finds the torah in his back room(kind of convenient, ha!?), and in Genesis 49:8-10, it is said that Judah is to be the center of the world really; it says the skeptre shall never depart Judah. Considering all the detailing of the peoples politics with one another(in an allegorical way) and that whoever wrote that the Sceptre shall never depart Judah, it should be quite clear what the Old testament for oen is . . . a political pamphlet. While Thales is busy touring the great learning centers of the Mesopotamians and Egyptians, the Judahites are declaring themselves the chosen ones.
When Judah became a fullfledged state, a division of labor to the level of allowing an educated class of scribes, a government to govern agriculture and a military, was as I said before two hundred years after Israel(really the Omrides who were not viewed by the Judahites very well because they were rich at the time . . . 900 B.C. . . and the Judahites weren't; i hope to get back to this point!) was destroyed. When they got around to composing their political pamphlet, there were ruins everywhere - far and near. What to make of it all? Of course, King Soloman must have built all these ruins(they were Omride, an Israelite dynasty), and, where did we come from? Of course, we must have come from Egypt! How could we have done that? There must have been a parting of the seas! I want to stress here something about the way humans think here. I mean, we have to figure things out from our current perspective. This is what Jacob Bronowski is trying to say in his "Origins of Knowledge and Imagination." I mean when we first started out trying to understand the stars, we thought the earth was the center of the universe and flat(most ancient people); we'd make up our mathematics accordingling; Everyone from Eudoxus to Ptolemy would explain the motions of the planets by making epicycles upon epicycles no matter how unweildy the final contraption. Just like our first thoughts about the sun, stars, and planets going around the immovable Earth, the Judahites made sense of their surroundings and predicaments from their current perspective or time and space.
Here's an interesting biblical point about the Judahites p0litics compared to the northern Israelites . . . 2kings14:9, the Israelite king calls the Judahite king a thistle who goes to Lebanon for help because they can't take care of themselves.
About that Exodus . . . well, there appears to have been an exodus of Hyksos around 1570 B.c. They went into canaan and all; but, this is over a hundred years earlier than when the Bibical exodus is suppose to have happened. In fact, during the supposed biblical exodus, Egypt was enjoying a resurgence of power(before the coming of the mysterious sea peoples . . . Minoans who were to settle down as Phoenicians? . . . and the coming resulting dark ages); this was the time Abu Simble and the great columns at Karnak were built. At that time, Egypt was more powerfull than ever; they built because of the Hyksos walls manned by armies that would travel up and down these walls; they had gates, and they had scribes who would keep track of the comings and goings of those who would go through those gates; guess what? There's no mention of an Exodus at this time.
I'll leave the whole thing(I think; i mean my plans for this posting is to be a rather big post!)about the Exodus with a curious repeat of the exodus story in other parts of the bible. There's Joshua 3:13 through, 2kings 2:8 and 2:14! I mean two right next to each other! It just seems like parting of seas was a literary trick used to overcome any kind of trouble that could stand in their way!
There's plenty more to say about the inaccuracies of the Old testament. But, I'd like to point out some of the various things mentioned. Things like how the Patriarches would take the gods away from poor little locals, Genesis 31:30, God hardens hearts Exodus 4:2-1, 7:4-5, Deut 2:30; this one, God hardens some tribeman's heart so that Moses has to strike him down. He does it again at Joshua 11:20. The exodus passages has God hardening the heart of the Egyptian Pharoh.
After all the above, in Dueteronomy has the ten commandments in chapter 5. What are these ten commandments? They are, I'm a jealous god, don't worship other gods(what? I thought there was only one god? Smooth move their god . . . oops, or is that Elohim? Yea, it's Elohim!). Then, it's don't kill your mother; i'm being facetious here, but, the point is that after four plus books of some of the most barbaric writing(and reading), god asking for burnt offerings, jews in sinai eating a halluecegenic mushroom(I've posted a video not to long ago about how manna from heaven is a mushroom), and all the passages mentioned above, the great cosmic wisesaying from the all powerfull, all wise god is . . . don't rape your mother. Anything else on your mind there god? Well, here's one . . . in 1Samuel chapter 8:10-22, Samuel offers democracy, but the people and ultimately God shouts him down; no, we want to be judged by you Samuel!
Something I havn't confirmed is that the chronicles books are midrash(one could say rehash) of the kings and Samuel books. It's well known that the Epic of Gilgamesh is a flood story and the Judahites basically used it. Perhaps less well known is that the ten commandments are taken right out of the Egyptian book of the dead. Some other things I havn't gotten around to comfirming yet(i'm actually hoping that by making this post, I can finally put this whole religion thing to rest for a good long time! Hence, why I'm putting it all in one big post! There's just so much that one could spend the rest of your life reading and confirming all this archaeology, linguistics, and comparative religion!) is that the Psalms and Proverbs seem to be strikingling similar to the surrounding Mesopotamian civilizations writings as well. I'm pointing all this out because I'm now going to start pointing out a bunch of stuff about the New Testament.
Sorry to say(hate to waste your time!), but I'm having a hard time figuring out where to start! My whole point about the Judahites and the Greeks both taking on the Phoenician alphabet comes into full force here. Both of them used their natural language alphabets for their number symbolism as well. This is what scholars call 'Gematria.' Gematria goes back to Plato really. Plato tried to mathematically calculate love, hate, and morality from numbers and geometry. He started this tradition which went on for almost a thousand years really . . . right into the Gospel of John and his Jesus Christ is the 'word' of god. On the Jewish side of this was actally King Josiah around 622 B.C. He was considered of the Davidic line. The religion . . . basically Dueteronomy . . . was that he was to lead them to the future. Well, a Pharoh cut him down, and the Jews had to rethink their religion; they did so while in exile in Babylon. All the prophet literature like Isaiah, Zechariah and so on come about around this time. Their literature was used by somebody, we don't really know who definitively to misrash first the Gospel of Mark. But, that's still getting ahead of the story. I can't help asking a question about Jesus and the Davidic line here though. How is Jesus Christ of the Davidic line if he was born of a virgin?
I think I'm going to shorten things here a little bit. There's lots of mention of mystery schools in ancient literature. What are they? There's some good guesses i think, but the truth is we shall never really know because they apparently were considered a secret. Once initiated, you were not allowed to tell the outside world the goings on inside these mystery schools as revealed by a passage of Herodotus, book 2, chapter 61 of the "Histories"(de silencourt translation), in which he essentially says that he's not allowed to say what the mysteries are. The mysteries were a secret on pain of death; this is why the christians were persecuted in the early first millenium; because they were revealing mysteries; they were making them 'flesh'. In a revealing passage by Barnabas, a kind of right hand man who followed Paul and continued Paul's efforts, we see why people like Barnabas and Paul were trying to make up a new really sungod . . .
"then he clearly manifested himself to be the son of god. For had he not come in the flesh, how should men have been able looked upon him, that they might be saved?"
This is in the Epistle of Barnabas chapter 4:13-14. The very next passage is full of sungod talk suggesting exactly what Jesus Christ is . . . a sungod. Jesus Christ is the son of god, that is . . . the 'Sun' of of God.
I'd like to get back to the whole 'the mysteries were a secret' point for a second. Herodotus was writing in the four hundreds B.C. time frame. So for those hundreds of years, there were Sungods of Dionysius and the Egyptian(the Egyptian sungods goes back to Ra and thousands of years before the Greeks), yet, we can't say much about them. Actually, we can, but it's kind of hard to dig it all up, translate it all and present it all; you kind of have to go to Egypt for one to do it; and, I'm in no position to do so right now. This is why I'm for the most part going to skip right along to Paul and and his epistles and show some highlights there. To say the least, there's all kinds of Egyptian artwork of horus being born of a virgin on the walls of the great Egyptian temples; but, there's also a whole bunch of papyrus found in the sarcofocus's of egyptians for hundreds of years prior to the supposed birth and life of Jesus Christ; these papyrus have been scrutinzed and found most revealing of an Egyptian religion that had a sungod(variously Osirus or Horus) that was born of a virgin, had twelve disciples and did similar miriacles and so on. Outside of these revealing archaeological relics in an otherwise dark and shut off age, I'm going to present an interesting passage from Virgil.
Well, actually a few things. One is a passage from a Julian calendar dated 9 B.C. . .
"The Providence which rules over all has filled this man with such gifts for the salvation of the world as designated him as savior for us and for the coming generations; of wars he will make an end, and establish all things worthily. By his appearing are the hopes of our forefathers fulfilled; not only has he surpassed the good deeds of earlier times, but it is impossible that one greater than he can ever appear. The birthday of God has brought to the world glad tidings that are bound up in him. From his birthday a new era begins."
Now for the Virgil passage from his "Eclogue 4",
"Come are those last days that the Sybil sang: The ages' might march begins anew. Now comes the virgin, Saturn reigns again: now from high heaven descends a wondrous race. Thou on the newborn babe-who first shall end . . . That age of iron, bid a golden dawn . . . Upon the broud world-chaste Lucina, smile: Now thy Apollo reigns."
This passage would be dated around 37 B.C. Clearly, people from all walks of life whether Jewish, Greek, or Roman were looking for a coming Messiah. Recently, there was found a ink printed stone 'dead sea scroll' which revealed a Jesus Christ before Jesus Christ. This "Revelation of Gabriel" speaks of a Simon who was resurrected after three days. The truth is there were many people around the first century B.C. who were willing to sacrifice their lives(just like the human bombs of today in the middle east!) to be the coming Messiah. This "Revelation of Gabriel" stone tablet has been dated into the first century B.C.
I really don't have to go much further; but, there's just some goodies I've gots to get down here!.
Most people would start any discussion of the New Testament with the Gospels, perhaps Matthew. But, any real New Testament scholar knows that the Pauline epistles came first. That's clue enough that the Gospels were made up; they were made up after the Pauline epistles! Now, for some stuff found in the Pauline Epistles.
Paul says many times that he gets his ideas that there was a Christ(usually, he doesn't even mention Jesus Christ, but a Christ) 'from scripture.' Romans 1:2 and 1Corinthians 15:3-4 are two that I'll mention. It's mentioned many times throughout the new testament really.
Paul is actually in competition with others . . . one an Apollo from Alexandria. He and other groups have make up tests to test whether these others are speaking something significant. Apparently, there's tests made up to test people like Paul if they're authentic or not in Dideche Chapter 11. An example in the New testament is 1John4:1. Of course, it's mentioned many times throughout the New Testament that there's others preaching their own version of a coming messiah. The Jews for one are said in the Gospels to not really believe that Jesus Christ is the coming Messiah. The thing about Paul is that he's claiming authority because he's innovated this idea of 'deriving from scripture.' "Deriving from Scripture' seems to be a Paul innovation. Any sensible person would look up these passages and realize this is not really mathematical derivation. Yes, he derived it from scripture, but this 'midrash' process is not really mathematics. It's poetry at best. Apparently, back then, people didn't realize this. But, let me give some more!
Hebrews 7:1-3 mentions a Melchizadek who is similar to Jesus Christ; why? Because he's derived from scripture . . . in this case, Genesis 14:18-20. Basically, Melchizek is kind of pre-new testament Jesus Christ long before Jesus Christ, and he makes an appearance in this earliest of Pauline epistle because he was an early model for Jesus Christ.
In 1Corinthians15:5-8, Jesus is first seen by a Cephas, then of the twelve, and then by . . . five hundred people! This is two thirds quite contrary to the Gospel accounts.
Isaia 7:14 says a lord shall be born of a virgin and called Immanual. The Gospel of Matthewe quotes this even calling Jesus Christ Emannuel.
There's a lot more that could be mentioned of course, but, I thought I'd mention this one and Jesus coming from Nazareth.
Zechariah 9:9 seems to be the midrash for Jesus coming into Jerusalem on an ass . . . or a colt . . . or both depending on which gospel you read! They all read this scripture a different way, and Jesus is hence made to come in Jerusalem sometimes on one, sometimes on another, and sometimes on both at the same time!
Well, one more, Psalm 22, "God why have you forsaken me?"
Jesus in Mark is made to come from Nazareth by scripture(I forget the scriptural reference; maybe I'll come back and edit this later on; i just want to post this now!). Well, as it turns out, modern archaeology shows that there was no city of Nazareth during the supposed life of Jesus Christ! In fact, there was no city for hundreds of years after the supposed life of Jesus Christ! In the other gospels, Jesus Christ is made to come from Bethleham . . . again, derived from Scripture; only, modern archaeology shows there was no temples built to Jesus Christ then or hundreds of years after the supposed life of Jesus Christ!
The remarkable thing about the references above about the Julian calendar and Virgil and all is that after the birth of Jesus Christ, you would expect a hugh amount of literature and artwork all around the mediterraenean about Jesus Christ performing miracles, and the word of the Gospel coming quickly. But, instead, out of hundreds of historians of the time period, the dead sea scrolls that go from b.c. time period to 100 A.D., to the christian catacombs, there is zero mention of Jesus Christ. Instead, you see Hermes in the catacombs and all kinds of other sungods.
And, why do we see all kinds of other forms of christianity being formed hundreds of years after the supposed life of Jesus Christ if the facts were clear from the very start?
And perhaps finaly, why is Jesus Christ made to be born when he is so made? The Gospels give no date. I suggest that due to a Greek mathematical scientist Hipparchus who discoverd the precession of the equinoxes before 100 B.C, people knew that the end of the age of the Lamb was coming. Jesus Christ is to be the coming of the age of the Pises. The sungods go through the twelve constellations(hence the twelve disciples of christ; all the previous sungods had twelve something . . . sometimes like the twelve things to do for Hercules). Because the earth is tilted, it's north pole is pointed at the north star; but, because it's tilt wobbles or changes, the north pole is pointing to different parts of the sky; and, the constellations come up in different times of the years over thousands of years. Hipparchus discovered this lets say before he died in 120 B.C. It's known that the mithras sungod took on this phenomenon to bring in the new age of aquarius(hence John the Baptist is the constellation of Aquarius). Basically, the transition from the age of the ram to the age of the pises is around the same time that Jesus Christ is born. This whole bringing on of the new age must have been well known around this time, hence the above passage from the julian calendar.
I'd like to finish by saying that my researches in all this bible stuff shows me that from the rules of ethics of the ten commandments to the sungods, gematria, and midrash shows that everyone from the Judahites to the various mystery religions were trying to make a kind of mathematical religion. To make things short, their idea of a mathematical religion is a kind of Ptolemaic mathematical religion. Eudoxus to Ptolemy made a mathematical science of the motions of the stars and planets; but, they're ideas were drawn from wrong assumptions - that of the earth centered viewpoint which is the natural beginning perspective of all humans. In a similar way, christianity and all the sungod religions before it were a kind of Ptolemaic religion; they drew from unquestioned assumptions. These assumptions were about taking the mystery of the universe at face value. These sungod religions are ultimately a play on ignorance.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Kookaburra Jack on -
The prediction of Jesus by Virgil is a Constantinian Fraud
according to R. Lane-Fox ....
Now for the Virgil passage from his "Eclogue 4",
"Come are those last days that the Sybil sang: The ages' might march begins anew. Now comes the virgin, Saturn reigns again: now from high heaven descends a wondrous race. Thou on the newborn babe-who first shall end . . . That age of iron, bid a golden dawn . . . Upon the broud world-chaste Lucina, smile: Now thy Apollo reigns."
This passage would be dated around 37 B.C. Clearly, people from all walks of life whether Jewish, Greek, or Roman were looking for a coming Messiah.
This Virgil passage as a prediction of Jesus was first popularised by Constantine himself according to the British ancient Historian Robin Lane-Fox. See Constantine's Oration at Antioch. At p.651 (Pagans and Christians).
Here are my notes on this ....
Moving on through the Oration, Constantine informs us that the advent of Christ had been predicted by Virgil (70-19 BCE) in a Latin poem, written 40 BCE, to the poet's patron Pollio. Fox says: "Constantine cites Latin's loveliest Eclogue
to a christian audience for a meaning which it never had."
Constantine began with the seventh line, in a free Greek translation which changed its meaning"
p.651: Fox writes:
"Has there ever been such a sequence of misplaced discoveries in a christian sermon,
let alone in a speech at the end of a Christian synod?
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Permalink Reply by flashgordon on -
The scriptural derivation of jesus christ coming from a virgin in Isaia 7-14 is a misquote of the greek original . . . born of a young woman. Mythology is not precise which is one of my points about all this when I'm talking about this religion being Ptolemaic at best. Emperor Constantine's misquote does not mean that Virgil did not say what he did!
Further . . . as Earl Dohery notes in his "Jesus: neither god nor man", the scriptural derivations from Paul and whoever midrashed the gospels 'misquotes', or 'took out of context' all the midrashing from the old testemant(and other sources like maccabees). It's not the inaccuracies of the midrashing that matter in this; it's that they did midrash!
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Permalink Reply by Matt VDB on -
And why don't you read real scholars instead of amateur historians like Doherty who don't subject their books to peer review?
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Permalink Reply by flashgordon on
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I'd like to further comment that I've heard of your source before; sounds like a great book; i'd love to read it someday; but, honestly, I'm trying to kind of put it to rest for a good long time; there's so much more exciting things to learn about in mathematics!
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Permalink Reply by Kookaburra Jack on
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I agree! Mathematics is perhaps endless!
Have you read this article?
Lecture —
A Century of Controversy over the Foundations of Mathematics
What type of mathematics are you exploring?
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Permalink Reply by flashgordon on
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Oystein Ore's "Number theory and its history"
I'll have to get back to you hopefully soon!
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Permalink Reply by Matt VDB on
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Wow...
Hi Gordon. Errrrm, I really don't know what to do with your post. I've read it three or four times by now, and I still have trouble determining how the individual points have any coherence with respect to each other. It seems to me that all you're saying is that the Bible contains errors (big shocker there); you won't exactly find much debate with us on that point.
Yet for some reason you had to say much more than that. What especially bothers me is that you call this thread "The Gospel of Truth" (quite pretentious) but then go on to spout quite a bit of misinformation, like that archaelogists think that Nazareth didn't exist at the time of Jesus (which is patently false), that Israel is a conjunction of Is, Ra and El (which is pure conjecture and speculation of the highest degree), that Judaism is a sungod religion (which is as false as can be), or that the New Testament is based on midrash (which is also based on speculation and no actual evidence),... etcetera etcetera. And it just goes on and on and on...
Out of interest, can you tell us what your sources are? It seems to me that you're getting your information from questionable places.
Kind regards,
Matt
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Permalink Reply by flashgordon on
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I don't want to make a full reply right now; but, I would like to comment that I'm not to sure that I said Judaism in particular is a sungod religion(although I can point out some old testement passages to suggest some sungod worship; even Josephus says the twelve tribes of Israel are the twelve constellations; i have his book; i'll go look it up . . . hopefully tomorrow). That's about as far as I want to reply tonight. However, I thought I'd post my re-edit; i had some stuff that just kept bugging me about it that I felt I had to flesh this right up out some more; so I did so this night!
We have some evidence that the Europeans around the time of the building of the Great Pyramid knew as much mathematics and astronomy as the Egyptians in the form of Stonehenge and then later in the form of the Neblar skydisk(a picture and account of it was mentioned by me on this blog; it shouldn't be too far down the blog right now!). But, for whatever reason, the mesopotamian, Egyptian, and Hittite civilizations were to become the leading force for the future of humanity. This is perhaps especially weird considering that before 1000B.C. all those civilizations mysteriously(still for the most part . . . a mystery) suffered a major collapse and a dark ages. I've mentioned this before when talking about the Minoans. Them and Troy and the Egyptians of their middle period, that was the era before what we would consider the classical Greeks and at the same time the growth of the Hebrews. As I've mentioned before, there seems to be a close association between the Minoans and the Phoenicians, and it seems the Phoenicians started our alphabetical language style; a language style taken up by both the Greeks and the Hebrews. I've posted a youtube about the latest archaeology of the Hebrews before, but I'm going to point out some of what they say in that youtube, and then get into some of my latest readings about the New Testament.
The Bible says the Israelites came out of Egypt. Well, i don't want to totally refute that, but I do want to suggest it was a little bit more complicated than that! For starters, 'Israel' . . . Is ra el. Is is Issis, a persian god. Ra is an Egyptian god, and El is a Phoenician god(In fact, God is translated in Hebrew as Elohim; also, Lord is translated as Adonai a summarian god). When for whatever reason the civilizations went into a dark ages around 1200 B.C., a whole bunch of surrounding peoples seemed to flow into the canaanite lands in between the Hittites(Persians) in the north, and the Egyptians in the south. Israel seems to me to suggest that a bunch of peoples came together there and mixed.
I want to show some interesting biblical evidence for two things here; sungod worship by both the Egyptians and the very earliest Hebrews, and that there is some connection between the Hebrews and the Egyptians(I've already suggested this is a little bit more complicated than the bible would show it or that most people would think). Basically, there's some comparison between the Hymn to Akhenaten and Psalm 104. http://kemet.250x.com/psalm104.html Seems to me the changes from the Hyman to Akenaten to the biblical Psalm 104 is a great reflection of the time in between their writing. The amount of times it was told, it obviously changed over time.
The first mention of Israelites seems to be around 1100 B.C. These Israelites seem to have grown quite rich. I should back up here actually. It should be noted that there was a northern rich agricultural lands that was called Israel, and a poor lower highlands called Judah. The northerners seemed to be rich for awhile. But, eventually, some aggresive Mesopotamian Assyrians destroyed them. When this happened, some of the Israelites moved south into Judah. But, it wasn't for two hundred years that Judah didn't become a powerfull state around 700 B.C. I need to stress here that when the Assyrians vanquished the first Israelite state, they took in the population for slaves - both manual labor and arts and sciences; this was the way things were done back then; it's why states went to war - for slaves; the Israelites were probably attacked more because they were in the way of the Assyrians battle with Egypt than anything else. I stress this point more because outside of maybe a few original Israelites moving to Judah around this time, the majority were absorbed into the Assyrian culture; they were no more; their seed was, but their identity was not. So, when two hundred years later in Judah, when they finally became a full-fledged state, they were seeing the ruins around them from a purelly Judahite perspective. It must also be stressed more forceably here that when the Assyrians took out the Israelite state, they didn't bother or care about the agrarian judahites; they were so few and poor; they weren't even worth a mention or a fight. There seems to be much scriptural evidence for this date as when the torah of the Old Testament was first formed. For one, there is much mention of Abraham riding around on camels; archaeological evidence shows that Camels only became domesticated around 700B.C. A lot of the place names of the surrounding other cultures were only in existence around this time(like the Emobites). Also, those peoples conflicts with each other and with the Judahites has been shown by archaeology to have only taken place around 700 B.C.(i'm mostly talking about the descriptions of peoples mentioned in the book of Genesis). In Genesis 25:23 two nations are born in the womb of a woman.
Why was the Torah really first composed around 700 b.c.? I'd like to mention a couple more quotes from the Bible. In 2Kings 22:8-23:24, High Priest Hilkiah miraculously finds the torah in his back room(kind of convenient, ha!?), and in Genesis 49:8-10, it is said that Judah is to be the center of the world really; it says the skeptre shall never depart Judah. Considering all the detailing of the peoples politics with one another(in an allegorical way) and that whoever wrote that the Sceptre shall never depart Judah, it should be quite clear what the Old testament for oen is . . . a political pamphlet. While Thales is busy touring the great learning centers of the Mesopotamians and Egyptians, the Judahites are declaring themselves the chosen ones.
When Judah became a fullfledged state, a division of labor to the level of allowing an educated class of scribes, a government to govern agriculture and a military, was as I said before two hundred years after Israel(really the Omrides who were not viewed by the Judahites very well because they were rich at the time . . . 900 B.C. . . and the Judahites weren't; i hope to get back to this point! I just redid this above!) was destroyed. When they got around to composing their political pamphlet, there were ruins everywhere - far and near. What to make of it all? Of course, King Soloman must have built all these ruins(they were Omride, an Israelite dynasty), and, where did we come from? Of course, we must have come from Egypt! How could we have done that? There must have been a parting of the seas! I want to stress here something about the way humans think here. I mean, we have to figure things out from our current perspective. This is what Jacob Bronowski is trying to say in his "Origins of Knowledge and Imagination." I mean when we first started out trying to understand the stars, we thought the earth was the center of the universe and flat(most ancient people); we'd make up our mathematics accordingling; Everyone from Eudoxus to Ptolemy would explain the motions of the planets by making epicycles upon epicycles no matter how unweildy the final contraption. Just like our first thoughts about the sun, stars, and planets going around the immovable Earth, the Judahites made sense of their surroundings and predicaments from their current perspective or time and space. It should be stressed here that the Judahites were jealous of almost everyone around them; whoever was rich were portrayed as bad(I forget the archaeological evidence, but those who know the archaeological accounts can see quite clearly that the Judahites portrayed anybody who was successfull as blasphemus and to be destroyed by God.), and whoever helped them as good. When Cyrus the Great(according the Judahites) let the Jews go from their Babylonian exile, they called him the annointed one - Or, Christ Cyrus.(Isaiah 45:1 . . . 44:28 has Cyrus as God's sheppard). So early on, Christ was a common title for kings in the middle east.
Here's an interesting biblical point about the Judahites p0litics compared to the northern Israelites . . . 2kings14:9, the Israelite king calls the Judahite king a thistle who goes to Lebanon for help because they can't take care of themselves. This is pretty much out of context after may latest re-edits. To say the least, even the Israelites didn't much like the Judahites anti-every one else's religion.
About that Exodus . . . well, there appears to have been an exodus of Hyksos around 1570 B.c. They went into canaan and all; but, this is over a hundred years earlier than when the Bibical exodus is suppose to have happened. In fact, during the supposed biblical exodus, Egypt was enjoying a resurgence of power(before the coming of the mysterious sea peoples . . . Minoans who were to settle down as Phoenicians? . . . and the coming resulting dark ages); this was the time Abu Simble and the great columns at Karnak were built. At that time, Egypt was more powerfull than ever; they built because of the Hyksos walls manned by armies that would travel up and down these walls; they had gates, and they had scribes who would keep track of the comings and goings of those who would go through those gates; guess what? There's no mention of an Exodus at this time.
I'll leave the whole thing(I think; i mean my plans for this posting is to be a rather big post!)about the Exodus with a curious repeat of the exodus story in other parts of the bible. There's Joshua 3:13 through, 2kings 2:8 and 2:14! I mean two right next to each other! It just seems like parting of seas was a literary trick used to overcome any kind of trouble that could stand in their way!
There's plenty more to say about the inaccuracies of the Old testament. But, I'd like to point out some of the various things mentioned. Things like how the Patriarches would take the gods away from poor little locals, Genesis 31:30, God hardens hearts Exodus 4:2-1, 7:4-5, Deut 2:30; this one, God hardens some tribeman's heart so that Moses has to strike him down. He does it again at Joshua 11:20. The exodus passages has God hardening the heart of the Egyptian Pharoh.
After all the above, in Dueteronomy has the ten commandments in chapter 5. What are these ten commandments? They are, I'm a jealous god, don't worship other gods(what? I thought there was only one god? Smooth move their god . . . oops, or is that Elohim? Yea, it's Elohim!). Then, it's don't kill your mother; i'm being facetious here, but, the point is that after four plus books of some of the most barbaric writing(and reading), god asking for burnt offerings, jews in sinai eating a halluecegenic mushroom, Exodus 16:14 . . . it came by night after dew had settled in the soil . . . and a little round thing appeared, and all the passages mentioned above, the great cosmic wisesaying from the all powerfull, all wise god is . . . don't rape your mother. Anything else on your mind there god? Well, here's one . . . in 1Samuel chapter 8:10-22, Samuel offers democracy, but the people and ultimately God shouts him down; no, we want to be judged by you Samuel!
Something I havn't confirmed is that the chronicles books are midrash(one could say rehash) of the kings and Samuel books. It's well known that the Epic of Gilgamesh is a flood story and the Judahites basically used it. Perhaps less well known is that the ten commandments are taken right out of the Egyptian book of the dead. Some other things I havn't gotten around to comfirming yet(i'm actually hoping that by making this post, I can finally put this whole religion thing to rest for a good long time! Hence, why I'm putting it all in one big post! There's just so much that one could spend the rest of your life reading and confirming all this archaeology, linguistics, and comparative religion!) is that the Psalms and Proverbs seem to be strikingling similar to the surrounding Mesopotamian civilizations writings as well. I'm pointing all this out because I'm now going to start pointing out a bunch of stuff about the New Testament.
Sorry to say(hate to waste your time!), but I'm having a hard time figuring out where to start! My whole point about the Judahites and the Greeks both taking on the Phoenician alphabet comes into full force here. Both of them used their natural language alphabets for their number symbolism as well. This is what scholars call 'Gematria.' Gematria goes back to Plato really. Plato tried to mathematically calculate love, hate, and morality from numbers and geometry. He started this tradition which went on for almost a thousand years really . . . right into the Gospel of John and his Jesus Christ is the 'word' of god. On the Jewish side of this was actally King Josiah around 622 B.C. He was considered of the Davidic line. The religion . . . basically Dueteronomy . . . was that he was to lead them to the future. Well, a Pharoh cut him down, and the Jews had to rethink their religion; they did so while in exile in Babylon. All the prophet literature like Isaiah, Zechariah and so on come about around this time. Their literature was used by somebody, we don't really know who definitively to misrash first the Gospel of Mark. A point that needs emphasizing here is that the Judaic/Christian religion is dictatorship and Messianic/end of the world. But, that's still getting ahead of the story. I can't help asking a question about Jesus and the Davidic line here though. How is Jesus Christ of the Davidic line if he was born of a virgin?
I think I'm going to shorten things here a little bit. There's lots of mention of mystery schools in ancient literature. What are they? There's some good guesses i think, but the truth is we shall never really know because they apparently were considered a secret. Once initiated, you were not allowed to tell the outside world the goings on inside these mystery schools as revealed by a passage of Herodotus, book 2, chapter 61 of the "Histories"(de silencourt translation), in which he essentially says that he's not allowed to say what the mysteries are. The mysteries were a secret on pain of death; this is why the christians were persecuted in the early first millenium; because they were revealing mysteries; they were making them 'flesh'. In a revealing passage by Barnabas, a kind of right hand man who followed Paul and continued Paul's efforts, we see why people like Barnabas and Paul were trying to make up a new really sungod . . .
"then he clearly manifested himself to be the son of god. For had he not come in the flesh, how should men have been able looked upon him, that they might be saved?"
This is in the Epistle of Barnabas chapter 4:13-14. The very next passage is full of sungod talk suggesting exactly what Jesus Christ is . . . a sungod. Jesus Christ is the son of god, that is . . . the 'Sun' of of God.
I'd like to get back to the whole 'the mysteries were a secret' point for a second. Herodotus was writing in the four hundreds B.C. time frame. So for those hundreds of years, there were Sungods of Dionysius and the Egyptian(the Egyptian sungods goes back to Ra and thousands of years before the Greeks), yet, we can't say much about them. Actually, we can, but it's kind of hard to dig it all up, translate it all and present it all; you kind of have to go to Egypt for one to do it; and, I'm in no position to do so right now. This is why I'm for the most part going to skip right along to Paul and and his epistles and show some highlights there. To say the least, there's all kinds of Egyptian artwork of horus being born of a virgin on the walls of the great Egyptian temples; but, there's also a whole bunch of papyrus found in the sarcofocus's of egyptians for hundreds of years prior to the supposed birth and life of Jesus Christ; these papyrus have been scrutinzed and found most revealing of an Egyptian religion that had a sungod(variously Osirus or Horus) that was born of a virgin, had twelve disciples and did similar miriacles and so on. Outside of these revealing archaeological relics in an otherwise dark and shut off age, I'm going to present an interesting passage from Virgil.
Well, actually a few things. One is a passage from a Julian calendar dated 9 B.C. . .
"The Providence which rules over all has filled this man with such gifts for the salvation of the world as designated him as savior for us and for the coming generations; of wars he will make an end, and establish all things worthily. By his appearing are the hopes of our forefathers fulfilled; not only has he surpassed the good deeds of earlier times, but it is impossible that one greater than he can ever appear. The birthday of God has brought to the world glad tidings that are bound up in him. From his birthday a new era begins."
Now for the Virgil passage from his "Eclogue 4",
"Come are those last days that the Sybil sang: The ages' might march begins anew. Now comes the virgin, Saturn reigns again: now from high heaven descends a wondrous race. Thou on the newborn babe-who first shall end . . . That age of iron, bid a golden dawn . . . Upon the broud world-chaste Lucina, smile: Now thy Apollo reigns."
This passage would be dated around 37 B.C. Clearly, people from all walks of life whether Jewish, Greek, or Roman were looking for a coming Messiah. Recently, there was found a ink printed stone 'dead sea scroll' which revealed a Jesus Christ before Jesus Christ. This "Revelation of Gabriel" speaks of a Simon who was resurrected after three days. The truth is there were many people around the first century B.C. who were willing to sacrifice their lives(just like the human bombs of today in the middle east!) to be the coming Messiah. This "Revelation of Gabriel" stone tablet has been dated into the first century B.C.
I really don't have to go much further; but, there's just some goodies I've gots to get down here!.
Most people would start any discussion of the New Testament with the Gospels, perhaps Matthew. But, any real New Testament scholar knows that the Pauline epistles came first. That's clue enough that the Gospels were made up; they were made up after the Pauline epistles! Now, for some stuff found in the Pauline Epistles.
Paul says many times that he gets his ideas that there was a Christ(usually, he doesn't even mention Jesus Christ, but a Christ) 'from scripture.' Romans 1:2 and 1Corinthians 15:3-4 are two that I'll mention. It's mentioned many times throughout the new testament really.
Paul is actually in competition with others . . . one an Apollo from Alexandria. He and other groups have make up tests to test whether these others are speaking something significant. Apparently, there's tests made up to test people like Paul if they're authentic or not in Dideche Chapter 11. An example in the New testament is 1John4:1. Of course, it's mentioned many times throughout the New Testament that there's others preaching their own version of a coming messiah. The Jews for one are said in the Gospels to not really believe that Jesus Christ is the coming Messiah. The thing about Paul is that he's claiming authority because he's innovated this idea of 'deriving from scripture.' "Deriving from Scripture' seems to be a Paul innovation. Any sensible person would look up these passages and realize this is not really mathematical derivation. Yes, he derived it from scripture, but this 'midrash' process is not really mathematics. It's poetry at best. Apparently, back then, people didn't realize this. But, let me give some more!
Hebrews 7:1-3 mentions a Melchizadek who is similar to Jesus Christ; why? Because he's derived from scripture . . . in this case, Genesis 14:18-20. Basically, Melchizek is kind of pre-new testament Jesus Christ long before Jesus Christ, and he makes an appearance in this earliest of Pauline epistle because he was an early model for Jesus Christ.
In 1Corinthians15:5-8, Jesus is first seen by a Cephas, then of the twelve, and then by . . . five hundred people! This is two thirds quite contrary to the Gospel accounts.
Isaia 7:14 says a lord shall be born of a virgin and called Immanual. The Gospel of Matthewe quotes this even calling Jesus Christ Emannuel.
There's a lot more that could be mentioned of course, but, I thought I'd mention this one and Jesus coming from Nazareth.
Zechariah 9:9 seems to be the midrash for Jesus coming into Jerusalem on an ass . . . or a colt . . . or both depending on which gospel you read! They all read this scripture a different way, and Jesus is hence made to come in Jerusalem sometimes on one, sometimes on another, and sometimes on both at the same time!
Well, one more, Psalm 22, "God why have you forsaken me?"
Jesus in Mark is made to come from Nazareth by scripture(I forget the scriptural reference; maybe I'll come back and edit this later on; i just want to post this now!). Well, as it turns out, modern archaeology shows that there was no city of Nazareth during the supposed life of Jesus Christ! In fact, there was no city for hundreds of years after the supposed life of Jesus Christ! In the other gospels, Jesus Christ is made to come from Bethleham . . . again, derived from Scripture; only, modern archaeology shows there was no temples built to Jesus Christ then or hundreds of years after the supposed life of Jesus Christ!
The remarkable thing about the references above about the Julian calendar and Virgil and all is that after the birth of Jesus Christ, you would expect a hugh amount of literature and artwork all around the mediterraenean about Jesus Christ performing miracles, and the word of the Gospel coming quickly. But, instead, out of hundreds of historians of the time period, the dead sea scrolls that go from b.c. time period to 100 A.D., to the christian catacombs, there is zero mention of Jesus Christ. Instead, you see Hermes in the catacombs and all kinds of other sungods.
And, why do we see all kinds of other forms of christianity being formed hundreds of years after the supposed life of Jesus Christ if the facts were clear from the very start?
And perhaps finaly, why is Jesus Christ made to be born when he is so made? The Gospels give no date. I suggest that due to a Greek mathematical scientist Hipparchus who discoverd the precession of the equinoxes before 100 B.C, people knew that the end of the age of the Lamb was coming. Jesus Christ is to be the coming of the age of the Pises. The sungods go through the twelve constellations(hence the twelve disciples of christ; all the previous sungods had twelve something . . . sometimes like the twelve things to do for Hercules). Because the earth is tilted, it's north pole is pointed at the north star; but, because it's tilt wobbles or changes, the north pole is pointing to different parts of the sky; and, the constellations come up in different times of the years over thousands of years. Hipparchus discovered this lets say before he died in 120 B.C. It's known that the mithras sungod took on this phenomenon to bring in the new age of aquarius(hence John the Baptist is the constellation of Aquarius). Basically, the transition from the age of the ram to the age of the pises is around the same time that Jesus Christ is born. This whole bringing on of the new age must have been well known around this time, hence the above passage from the julian calendar.
I'd like to finish by saying that my researches in all this bible stuff shows me that from the rules of ethics of the ten commandments to the sungods, gematria, and midrash shows that everyone from the Judahites to the various mystery religions were trying to make a kind of mathematical religion. To make things short, their idea of a mathematical religion is a kind of Ptolemaic mathematical religion. Eudoxus to Ptolemy made a mathematical science of the motions of the stars and planets; but, they're ideas were drawn from wrong assumptions - that of the earth centered viewpoint which is the natural beginning perspective of all humans. In a similar way, christianity and all the sungod religions before it were a kind of Ptolemaic religion; they drew from unquestioned assumptions. These assumptions were about taking the mystery of the universe at face value. These sungod religions are ultimately a play on ignorance.
There's actually not much Gematria in the New Testament. Fideler notes Galatians 3:17; he argues that Pauls number 430 years doesn't make sense historically, but in terms of the gematria value of the "law". What I really want to stress here is that the mystery schools were heavily into Gematria, and that what the Christians were trying to do(getting back to their logical reasoning of why they should make the sungods 'in the flesh' of Barnabas's quote above) is make an easier religion. Fideler notes that a Clement of Alexandria wrote a book called "Exhortation to the Greeks" where he argues against this toned down religion of these new 'Gospels.' Clement tried to continue what Philo and others were doing in the mystery schools; get people to learn and develop(although in a rather Ptolemaic way as I've argued above); during his time, others were argueing that 'unquestioned belief' was the sure way to salvation. This blindfaith appealed to those who wanted to take center stage between god and man. They wanted the church to be the mediator between God and mankind, so they made this toned down sungod religion. That's what the Gospels really represent. Basicaly, if you say you believe, your in. You don't actually have to understand anything. You can read into the Gospels almost anything you want.
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Permalink Reply by flashgordon on
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I thought I'd note that I have personaly noted that Issis, Ra, El is kind of questionable; but, I think there's a case for it in the archaeology and history that has come from Israel Finkelstein and Silberman's "The Bible Unearthed." As for almost the rest, I've read and looked them up; i'm pretty confident I'll win the arguement; but, goodnight for now!
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Permalink Reply by Matt VDB on
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I'm afraid you won't "win" any argument because your posts are full of factual errors and faulty information. Take this, for example:
"Jesus in Mark is made to come from Nazareth by scripture(I forget the scriptural reference; maybe I'll come back and edit this later on; i just want to post this now!). Well, as it turns out, modern archaeology shows that there was no city of Nazareth during the supposed life of Jesus Christ!"
Why don't you start with demonstrating those two claims: (i) that Nazareth is a scriptural inference and (ii) that modern archaelogy shows that there was no city of Nazareth in the First Century.
Think carefully before posting.
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Permalink Reply by flashgordon on
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Well, I found this astrology of the bible link; astrology is basically about sun, stars, and the moon, and the constellations.
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen13.html
I got this constructive criticism from the jesusmysteries.
"Hi David & Jake,
Â
EL was the recognized father god of the Semites, and with his wife Asherah
(a.k.a. Ashtoreth) -- who was also worshiped at least till the days of
Jeremiah
as the Queen of Heaven -- they had numerous sons, one of whom was Yahu (YHWH)
another was Baal.
The name ISRAEL is related to the name of EL, as the Hebrew yiÅ›rÄ'Ä“l
means  God
has striven, God has saved  :
from yiÅ›rÄ, he has striven, saved, related to the Semitic root śry, plus
the
name of EL.
Â
By possible influence from the cult of ATON (as in Ikhnaton, the founder of
the
Egyptian monotheist cult)Â of Egypt, Yahu/Yahweh (a.k.a. ADON &
ADONAI),   became
the one and only god to be worshiped under the rule of king Josiah (ca. 641-609
BCE) and his totalitarian political-religious party known as the Yahwist Cult.
 This was reinforced after the liberation from captivity by the Zoroastrian
Perisn king Cyrus (declared to be Yahweh's messiah by Isaiah), producing the
syncretion of Josiah's proto-Judaism with Zoroastrianism, known historically as
Judaism.Â
 "
And I found this about Nazareth(I also looked up nazareth in an online bible; it has a word search engine; i could not find the word Nazareth in the old testament; not sure where I got this feeling that nazareth was derived from scripture; but, well, for some reason, I can feel a memory of it; i don't know what else to say!)
"Nazareth is not mentioned even once in the entire Old Testament. The Book of Joshua (19.10,16) – in what it claims is the process of settlement by the tribe of Zebulon in the area – records twelve towns and six villages and yet omits any 'Nazareth' from its list.
• The Talmud, although it names 63 Galilean towns, knows nothing of Nazareth, nor does early rabbinic literature.
• St Paul knows nothing of 'Nazareth'. Rabbi Solly's epistles (real and fake) mention Jesus 221 times, Nazareth not at all.
• No ancient historian or geographer mentions Nazareth. It is first noted at the beginning of the 4th century.
Source(s):
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/nazaret…"
My references for where I got this stuff to compose this was "The Bible UnEarthed", Fideler's "Suns of God", and Earl Doherty's "Jesus: Neither God nor Man". and now the links above! As I said, I chose not to read Acharya S's "the Jesus Horus connection" as a reread of her sungods stuff because I feel I have enough, it is seven hundred more pages, and I need to move on from all this. I have a more extensive way of saying why I'm trying to not read and think about these things to much more; but, I'm already tired of going back and looking up all this as it is!
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Permalink Reply by Matt VDB on
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In other words, except for Finkelstein's work you chose to read poorly researched and non-peerreviewed popular books (and am I happy that you didn't read Acharya S: that's about the least scholarly source you can think off). Just as I thought. This shows in your post: as long as you stick to the facts about Exodus and the time period in which it supposedly happened (which you got from Finkelstein's book in other words) you do fine, but as soon as you let yourself be influenced by Doherty's and Fideler's pseudo-scholarship, things go rapidly downhill.
And then there's this:
"Well, I found this astrology of the bible link; astrology is basically about sun, stars, and the moon, and the constellations.
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen13.html"
In other words, you found unscholarly and unresearched (for goodness' sake man, it doesn't have friggin' sources) crap on a kooky New-Age site. Why didn't it ever occur to you read an actual scholar instead?
"I got this constructive criticism from the jesusmysteries."
In other words, you got constructive criticism from two New-Age dabblers who don't have education about this stuff (they are "mystical writers"). Look at some of Freke's other books and see just how reliable this guy is.
"And I found this about Nazareth(I also looked up nazareth in an online bible; it has a word search engine; i could not find the word Nazareth in the old testament; not sure where I got this feeling that nazareth was derived from scripture; but, well, for some reason, I can feel a memory of it; i don't know what else to say!)"
And then you use the jesusneverexisted.com site (surprise surprise: another crappy unresearched site by zealots with an axe to grind) who use some crap arguments which can be ripped apart in a matter of seconds:
- the Talmud and Old Testament's lists of places are nowhere near complete; they fail to mention several places, even ones that we know were quite important at the time like (Emmeaus). To expect them to mention Nazareth is absurd and not a good argument from silence.
- And I don't know who the fuck this "rabbi solly" character is (boy, I hope you're not seriously going to argue that Paul was a rabbi) but there's no reason why Paul would mention Nazareth: it was an insignificant birthplace, and Paul was talking about people who believed Jesus existed anyway. Ask yourself: the last 221 times you mentioned your father in conversations with your friends, did you explicitly mention his birthplace? I sure as hell didn't.
But anyway, the "Nazareth did not exist" thesis is crap anyway. There are no archaeologists who believe Nazareth wasn't inhabited in the First Century. None. Zero. There are several archaeologists, on the other hand, who have excavated First Century sites in Nazareth. In case you're still confused, here are some references to works of other real archaeologists - all of them Jewish - who have documented First Century sites and evidence of habitation in Nazareth:
- Gal, Z. Lower Galilee During the Iron Age (American Schools of Oriental Research, Eisenbrauns, 1992)p. 15;
- Yavor, Z. 1998 “Nazareth,” ESI 18. Pp. 32 (English), 48;
- Feig, N. 1990 “Burial Caves at Nazareth,” ‘Atiqot 10 (Hebrew series). Pp. 67-79
- And here's what Zvi Gal has to say about First Century finds in Nazareth in his Lower Galilee During the Iron Age - the definitive modern field survey of archaeology in the region:
"These ruins lie in the valley in which the old city of Nazareth is located, but the total area of the ancient site cannot be determined." (American Schools of Oriental Research Dissertations Series Translation, Vol. 8, 1992, p. 15, 1.8 "Nazareth")
And then on top of that there's the fact that it doesn't make any sense for Jesus' disciples to invent him coming to Nazareth if it wasn't actually so: it was embarassing enough as it was (see John 1).
"I have a more extensive way of saying why I'm trying to not read and think about these things to much more; but, I'm already tired of going back and looking up all this as it is!"
I'm sure you are, and it sort of pains me to burst bubbles like this, but you're absolutely nowhere. You haven't read publications in peer-reviewed journals. You haven't learned to distinguish genuine scholarship from biased and distorted pseudo-scholarship. You haven't looked for counter-arguments to your position. You haven't been reading critically and have not double-checked your facts.
Even Scepticwiki is a better and better researched source than the nonsense you've been reading so far.
You're a rationalist, or at least I hope you are. So don't read pseudo-scholarship and kooky New-Age sources. Read genuine, well-researched scholarship and don't simply cluelessly accept everything that an unsourced book tells you.
Kind regards,
Matt
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