"Just saying Hi ! We just had a torrential rainstorm here in NE Alabama. Lightning, thunder and rain Oh my!"
 |
The World's Largest Coalition of Nontheists and Nontheist Communities!
The Failure of the "God is Testing Our Faith" Hypothesis
By Eddie Miles
We everyday skeptics often come to a point in a debate at which the question is posed, "If God really loves your uncle who was in a motorcycle accident and wants him to get better, why did he cause him to have the accident in the first place?" Now, there are a few different answers that we get for this question but this post is just about one: "God is testing his faith."
At first, this seems like an intellectual dead end, that theistic claim that kills the debate because it becomes a matter of faith over evidence and is therefore unarguable. Fortunately, it's not. The debate can continue from this point and here's how.
Think about the implications of a test. In school, your teacher probably administered many tests. He or she did this to find out how much of the subject matter you actually absorbed. Of course, the best way to do this is to read your mind directly but since a school teacher doesn't have this power, he/she resorts to the next best method: testing. In other words, a test is a way for a being who IS NOT OMNISCIENT to know what's in your mind. A being who IS omniscient would have no use for such tools as said being could directly read your mind to know what you're thinking and what you know or believe. What this tells us about the test of faith hypothesis is that either god isn't omniscient or things like motorcycle accidents aren't "tests of faith" because an omniscient god would have no need for tests and a being who has a need for tests obviously isn't all-knowing.
Posted from The Everyday Skeptic Blog
We everyday skeptics often come to a point in a debate at which the question is posed, "If God really loves your uncle who was in a motorcycle accident and wants him to get better, why did he cause him to have the accident in the first place?" Now, there are a few different answers that we get for this question but this post is just about one: "God is testing his faith."
At first, this seems like an intellectual dead end, that theistic claim that kills the debate because it becomes a matter of faith over evidence and is therefore unarguable. Fortunately, it's not. The debate can continue from this point and here's how.
Think about the implications of a test. In school, your teacher probably administered many tests. He or she did this to find out how much of the subject matter you actually absorbed. Of course, the best way to do this is to read your mind directly but since a school teacher doesn't have this power, he/she resorts to the next best method: testing. In other words, a test is a way for a being who IS NOT OMNISCIENT to know what's in your mind. A being who IS omniscient would have no use for such tools as said being could directly read your mind to know what you're thinking and what you know or believe. What this tells us about the test of faith hypothesis is that either god isn't omniscient or things like motorcycle accidents aren't "tests of faith" because an omniscient god would have no need for tests and a being who has a need for tests obviously isn't all-knowing.
Posted from The Everyday Skeptic Blog
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Park Bierbower on -
I like that. I'll add that to my repertoire. Is that original?
-
Permalink Reply by Eddie Miles III on
-
Well, it's hard to use the term "original" because it's an obvious conclusion so I'm sure a lot of different people have come up with it before but in the sense that I thought of it and didn't read it somewhere else, yes it's original ;)
-
Permalink Reply by Park Bierbower on
-
It almost reminds me of when someone survives a horrific car crash, people say "it's a miracle they survived, an angel was watching over them" and then the person dies a few days later in the hospital and no one says anything lol. what, did god take back his miracle?
there was a school bus that drove off of a bridge, and i remember in the news the childrens pastor saying "angels were watching over them to keep them safe" and i was like "where were the angels when their freakin bus drove off a bridge?"
cognitive dissonance, gotta love it
-
-
Indeed
-
Permalink Reply by New Atheist on -
Thank you! This is a great observation.
Yes, I have also wondered why it's a miracle that someone survives something traumatic, when the traumatic event could have been avoided in the first place. Unless it's supposed to be something that "shakes a person up" into believing, like a jack-ass-ian show of power, which just sounds cruel to me since many survivors end up with some lingering psychological issues due to the intense fear they experienced.
-
Permalink Reply by Beth L. on
-
Couldn't the argument then turn to "free will"? That is, the argument that God is omniscient in the sense that he knows everything that can be known, but the acts of a human with free will can't be known until tested. This all falls apart if I'm mis-remembering, but I think God supposedly granted humans free will.
Now, I'm not supporting this. But weaseling is a skill I've developed, and that's how I imagine the weaseling would occur.
-
Permalink Reply by Park Bierbower on
-
No, because logically an omnipotent/omniscient being cannot exist in a universe that also contains free will. If God granted free will~ the ability for us to act without him knowing the outcome, then he is not all powerful or all seeing, for there would be things he does not know~ our actions/thoughts.
If God is all powerful and does know everything, the future and our thoughts, then we have already been judged (for he knows what we will do) and therefore have no free will at all, are just merely acting out a path of predestination.
Either way, it doesn't work.
-
Permalink Reply by Beth L. on
-
I guess I was interpreting omniscience as knowing everything that is, not everything that may be. I looked up the definition in the Oxford English Dictionary, and it wasn't too enlightening - "Knowing everything" - but I can see where knowing what may be would be included in "everything".
-
Permalink Reply by Park Bierbower on
-
If God didn't/doesn't know everything that would be, then there would be no guarantee of heaven~ what if satan defeated "him." That would strip away God's Plan~ it would destroy the prophecies in the bible as well. God is supposed to be timeless, ergo god knows and controls everything. Besides, you would think that if "he" created the universe, "he" would have control over every aspect of it.
CONNECT WITH ATHEIST NEXUS
Latest Activity
- Top News
- Everything
Steph S. commented on Ruth Anthony-Gardner's group Hang With Friends"Those are beautiful flowers Patricia. Early detection is best - I agree.
Flying Atheist - I'm taking an Environmental Science class this summer. It's something I'm very interested in."
Steph S. replied to booklover's discussion Even More FB Finds..."I saw that Matthew - thanks! I was so proud of her!"
Steph S. replied to booklover's discussion Even More FB Finds..."Thank you booklover for posting that."
Steph S. replied to Loren Miller's discussion Latest Activity?"I'm wondering if there could be a way to sort photos? Like when people visit your page you could select some for viewing."
Loren Miller replied to booklover's discussion Even More FB Finds..."I know you were kidding ... that's why I'm gonna give you a REAL GOOD PRICE for it!"
Debra Stevenson replied to booklover's discussion Even More FB Finds..."Loren,
I'm only kidding. I'm just teasing. But I do think Mickey Mouse is real, I've been to Disney World and it truly is a magic kingdom.
Brandi Amari Willism"
© 2013 Atheist Nexus. All rights reserved. Admin: Richard Haynes.
