The arrogance of being right

I sometime read religious boards and it amazes and disappoints me how much religious zealots and atheist have in common – the absolute and righteous certainty that they at the exclusion of others possess knowledge/revelations that makes them the bearers of the truth.   

Recently on a different Atheist discussion board a lady that had just lost her young daughter wrote about her religious experience and of the comfort she receivers from her faith.  She politely shared her heart breaking story and even offered words of kindness.  The replies were predictably brutal and mocking, barely a shred of compassion for a mother that lost her child.  I made my best to present my atheist point of view to this lady but I did so with respect, compassion and understanding.  I also felt ashamed for my fellow atheists.

I see it here too at nexus, the same hubris and arrogance that at times is such that some individuals proclaim that their philosophies are “my own religion” while others are themselves “…my own religion” and their church is “my flesh and blood”.  Does this sound strangely familiar?  I suppose soon we will have Gods among us. 

Before we all get too heady from over indulging in the advantages of having the weight of evidence in our favor, we should remember that pointing out the irrationality of religion is as-easy-as- shooting-fish-in-a-barrel!  The real challenge is offering something better.

We are no better than those that dismiss us and demean us for being atheist if we dismiss and demean them for being believers. The belittling of others only diminishes us and at the very least makes us as misguided as we see theists to be.

It would serve us all well to remember that before presenting our carefully constructed arguments we could show something very simple – respect – and maybe even modesty.

If you believe that logic and reason offers superior guidance than mysticism and religion then BE the example.   

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Roy The Infidel on July 10, 2010 at 3:41am
Permalink Reply by Patricia Plunkett on July 10, 2010 at 4:00am
Why bother arguing at all ? The theists are too brainwashed to understand, this is not arrogance but a fact. Jehovah's Witnesses in particular are the worst kind of theist's. They will just not accept that you can live without God as your guide. What gets up my nose is that they cannot answer a question without thumbing through their book to find the answer, will not move away from your door and insist on trying to convert you into their brainwashed existence. I do not appreciate having to be rude to any one but I am afraid they bring the worst out in me, I have told them to take my door number off their calling list over and over again, but they ignore my request. When I see them in the street I even don't answer the door, but other times, if I have missed them passing my window I mistakenly open the door and get bombarded with literature full of prophesies and gobbledegook, as you said so succinctly Loren this is my home they are invading and I have every right to complain. As for the woman who was telling her heartfelt story on a social website being bombarded by criticism from atheists this disturbs me, and shows lack of compassion, however I agree with her not using an atheist site to convey her story without expecting a come back. I come across the theists in all walks of life, if they want an argument then they get it, I will no longer be chained to a philosophy which I do not believe in and am enjoying freedom from.
Permalink Reply by Фелч Гроган on July 10, 2010 at 5:46am
Fred, if you can decide that we have no compassion based on the mostly incoherent gibberish in this thread, then you are neither rational nor reasonable.

Rudeness and compassion are both optional behaviours and you are more or less claiming you can have one or the other, but not both. You are now being as insulting to our intelligence as Miguel.

Miguel has forfeited any entitlement respect by whining about atheist arrogance while simultaneously displaying ridiculous, narcissistic arrogance of his own.

And you are in danger of forfeiting the same for the sheer volume of meaningless typhos you manage to churn out for no actual good reason. I don't know what you have against Madalyn Murray, but I then again I don't want to know. It would only encourage more pointless noise.
Permalink Reply by Miguel on July 10, 2010 at 12:20pm
uɐƃoɹƃ ɥɔןǝɟ

It has been my experience that when people remain unable to defend an untenable position, especially one as contradictory as asserting that their ‘superior’ reasoning excuses their rude and disrespectful behavior, there is a predictable descent into attempts at ridicule, accessions that their numbers are evidence of being right, name calling, profanity and at last threats. It is unfortunate that atheists follow the same pattern as the likes of evangelicals and Tea Party zealots.

“Miguel has forfeited any entitlement respect by whining about atheist arrogance while simultaneously displaying ridiculous, narcissistic arrogance of his own”

You never gave me the opportunity to be arrogant, replies to such ill-informed and incoherent comment never required such thought or deliberation that they could possibly ever convey even a hint of superiority on my part. Such effort is clearly not been required thus far, most especially in your case.

“You are now being as insulting to our intelligence as Miguel”

If you feel that I have victimized your intelligence it is because arguments based on the bombastic emotional expressions of anger could only place your intelligence in a vulnerable position.

“Miguel has forfeited any entitlement respect… And you are in danger of forfeiting the same”

Interesting that you should mention narcissism, seeing how you have appointed yourself the position of Arbiter of Atheist Respect. It might disappoint you to know that earning your esteemed respect does not have the value to others you think it does.
Permalink Reply by Miguel on July 10, 2010 at 1:26pm
"I and others recognize it and so we respect him. Miguel comes up short."

The value of approval over scorn depends entirely on whom it is coming from.
Permalink Reply by Фелч Гроган on July 10, 2010 at 10:28pm
Miguel: It has been my experience that when people remain unable to defend an untenable position, especially one as contradictory as asserting that their ‘superior’ reasoning excuses their rude and disrespectful behavior, there is a predictable descent into attempts at ridicule, accessions that their numbers are evidence of being right, name calling, profanity and at last threats. It is unfortunate that atheists follow the same pattern as the likes of evangelicals and Tea Party zealots.

That's simply staggering. That tops the member here who once accused me of "what are you? Fucking Gandhi?" Unfortunately, this years Bulwer-Lytton prize is taken.

My position is that you are a broken sewer pipe of typhos. I don't need to defend it. I don't need to lift a finger. You are doing all the work. My only question is that if you are indeed yet another guerrilla evangelist, how are you going to go about dragging this out further since you are not getting quite the evidence of atheist intolerance that gives you a boner and you so deeply crave.

Your babble actually reminds me of a chap in here some months ago using similar verbal gastric promoting his thesis that civil western society only exists because of the Catholic church. His method was remarkably similar - a denial of service attack via nonsense overload coupled with superior indignation at not being taken as seriously as he so deeply deserved. You are awesome.
Permalink Reply by Miguel on July 11, 2010 at 12:23am
From your very first comment t was obvious you would inevitable descend into insults and profanity. Some of your ‘friends’ were still a tossup but not you I’m afraid. Although that’s not much of a prediction – understanding the nature of a dolt is not particularly challenging.

What disappoints me, and I really do mean this, is the astonishing consistency of idiocy that makes ‘debating’ people like you so tediously predictable and boring! I was enjoying a beer looking forward to capping my evening with a good debate but no you just can’t muster anything remotely challenging.

I really should be more understanding though. Anyone unfortunate enough to have both delusions of mental superiority and the intellectual capacity of an imbecile has no option but rely on aggressively mocking others, lest they be exposed for the idiot they really are. Whatever, you are as you are.

Oh yeah, nearly forgot, I like the guerrilla, infiltrator angle, that’s new, not your idea but I still like it.
Permalink Reply by Фелч Гроган on July 11, 2010 at 4:00am
Miguel: I was enjoying a beer looking forward to capping my evening with a good debate but no you just can’t muster anything remotely challenging.


The debate you're after is spelled "turbate" and has a "mas-" prefix.
Permalink Reply by Miguel on July 11, 2010 at 11:02am
: ) Ok that was funny.
Permalink Reply by Patricia Plunkett on July 10, 2010 at 6:00am
So, I am not supposed to be rude ? I have every right to be rude to people whom are being rude to me by disturbing my peace at my door, repeatedly accusing me of all sorts of heresy. This is my home and I have the right to choose who enters or leaves. Sometimes the use of reason is ignored because they are so busy looking for answers in their bibles instead of digesting the contents and answering themselves for them selves. I am normally rational and compassionate but I am afraid that flies out the window whenever I am criticised for being what I am a non-believer. After years of encounters I am afraid I do not have the patience any more. As for compassion I have found very little in comments from most contributors in the discussions I have taken part in. What I have found is that each individual is full of their own importance and opinions with little regard to others, they are more interested in writing intellectual essays than helping others. I came here looking for friendship with like-minded people not to be lectured or preached to as how I should or should not behave. If I find someone is being rude to me than I will certainly be rude back.
Permalink Reply by Patricia Plunkett on July 10, 2010 at 12:09pm
No John I do not confuse your rudeness with lack of compassion, quite the opposite, you have shown a very passionate side to you personality, in a number of comments.

I have learned over the years to stand up for myself, if this means being rude back then I am rude. I can't stand to listen to God be praised because I have had it since childhood and am sick to the teeth of hearing it. At present we are getting a visit from el Papa himself, it is costing £12million to stage the event, meanwhile the country is in recession and people are being asked to foot the bill for this visit. I am furious and being very rude about the whole affair, written to the Glasgow Council Chambers and complained and encouraged others to do the same. My thoughts are that if the Catholics want this visit they should fund it. He has also requested a meeting with the victims of the paedophile priests, no mention of the girls brutalised by nuns by the way, how would you approach this situation, calmly and nicely ? No your voice would not be heard over the sound of the bused in,trained in,boated in and flights of the followers of this man. If it were left to the Scottish people to attend there would be more victims in the park than parishioners, it will look good on the telly all this shipped in support, but is it good for us the people who live here no. Sometimes there is no substitute for self satisfaction than being rude.
Permalink Reply by Roy The Infidel on July 10, 2010 at 7:07am
We keep discussing about this woman/ mother who lost her daughter. I have requested for a link to the site where this discussion supposedly took place.

This is my third attempt. I am still waiting for the link.

I want to know if this incident really happened and I am interested to find out what Miguel posted as well as from those that he described as brutal and mocking.

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