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The arrogance of being right

I sometime read religious boards and it amazes and disappoints me how much religious zealots and atheist have in common – the absolute and righteous certainty that they at the exclusion of others possess knowledge/revelations that makes them the bearers of the truth.

Recently on a different Atheist discussion board a lady that had just lost her young daughter wrote about her religious experience and of the comfort she receivers from her faith. She politely shared her heart breaking story and even offered words of kindness. The replies were predictably brutal and mocking, barely a shred of compassion for a mother that lost her child. I made my best to present my atheist point of view to this lady but I did so with respect, compassion and understanding. I also felt ashamed for my fellow atheists.

I see it here too at nexus, the same hubris and arrogance that at times is such that some individuals proclaim that their philosophies are “my own religion” while others are themselves “…my own religion” and their church is “my flesh and blood”. Does this sound strangely familiar? I suppose soon we will have Gods among us.

Before we all get too heady from over indulging in the advantages of having the weight of evidence in our favor, we should remember that pointing out the irrationality of religion is as-easy-as- shooting-fish-in-a-barrel! The real challenge is offering something better.

We are no better than those that dismiss us and demean us for being atheist if we dismiss and demean them for being believers. The belittling of others only diminishes us and at the very least makes us as misguided as we see theists to be.

It would serve us all well to remember that before presenting our carefully constructed arguments we could show something very simple – respect – and maybe even modesty.

If you believe that logic and reason offers superior guidance than mysticism and religion then BE the example.

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by funk Q on July 11, 2010 at 12:00am

Those who want to be purposefully stupid will eventually find themselves paying the price for being stupid.

Sorry Loren but in my experience and observations these people merrily create havoc and it's up to others to pay for and do the clean up. These types are so stupid they don't even realise what they've done.

I now find the title so ironic in light of the obstinate and aggressive responses to the debate. There was no way skepticism and objectivity were even possible. At least I've learned nothing so it wasn't a complete waste.

Permalink Reply by Miguel on July 11, 2010 at 12:30am

"At least I've learned nothing so it wasn't a complete waste." Yes, the last thing you would want to do waste your time learning anything. I'm glad this 'discussion' has relieved you of that experience.

Read my original post it's simple and to the point.

Permalink Reply by Фелч Гроган on July 11, 2010 at 6:14am

Miguel: Yes, the last thing you would want to do waste your time learning anything. I'm glad this 'discussion' has relieved you of that experience.

Read my original post it's simple and to the point.

Reetard. Give us the link. Or just make one up and pretend it's broken. Do something other than spin in a pointless circle.

Permalink Reply by D R Hosie on July 11, 2010 at 3:54am

Hey - you two even been introduced?

Funk . . . Miguel;

Miguel . . . Funk Q :)

Permalink Reply by Loren Miller on July 11, 2010 at 6:55am

Maybe so, Funk ... but Miguel has yet to refute my primary premise: that she was there as much to proselytize and convert as she may have been to seek solace and/or comfort. If she hadn't mentioned her faith, she MIGHT have been credible. As it is, sorry, no sale.

Oh, and Miguel? I've taken care of me and mine for a while. I can carry the weight.

Permalink Reply by Loren Miller on July 11, 2010 at 10:40am

Indeed, too much such "politeness" is what has given rise to Political Correctness ... which I have ZERO tolerance for.

My question still stands and I've yet to hear a sapient answer:

WHY would a believer who is in pain over a serious personal loss go into an atheist forum and expect sympathy as a matter of course?

And once again, she "wrote about her religious experience and of the comfort she receivers [sic] from her faith."

The ONLY way she has an excuse is if she HAD NO IDEA WHATSOEVER that she was on an atheists' board, which frankly I doubt mightily. If I treat theists' invasion of our space as the rule, it is because that has been my repeated and consistent experience. If this incident is an exception, I have yet to hear cause to treat it as such.

Permalink Reply by Roy The Infidel on July 11, 2010 at 11:12am

Fred,

This was a lame post (OP) and Felch as usual early on saw it for what it was. Some members got carried away owing to the sensitive nature of the topic.

But, I think the operative words here (as far as this post is concerned) are trust and respect. And trust and respect is earned not automatically given. It is my opinion - absent the appropriate links of the author's source material, that his account of the bereaved mother is a work of fiction. Ergo, he LIES. And a liar to me deserves no ounce of trust and respect.

Now, if only if he were as slick as Dr. Evil & Mini Me, perhaps I would have been entertained.

Roy

Permalink Reply by Roy The Infidel on July 11, 2010 at 12:20pm

To jump to such a harsh conclusion that he deceive us on such slim circumstances as you have now seems to be very non-generous or what word to best describe it.

Don't get too cocky now, Fred.

If you bothered to read my posts, I have requested several times for the link to his source material. Twice he dismissed it without the benefit of a curt reply until I pinned him down to it. I had suspected all along his game plan.

The issue is not about me "non-generous" as you put it but you who is so trusting even at this point that the rug has been pulled off Miguel's feet.

He laid a trap for your fellow members including me. I wasn't falling for it. On the contrary, I had him fall right into his own trap.

Look at you. You are now his spokesman.

Show me THE FUCKING LINK!

Permalink Reply by Roy The Infidel on July 11, 2010 at 12:42pm

It is your choice to defend a pathetic liar.

Nothing changes. No link, he lies.

Whatever makes you happy, Fred.

Permalink Reply by Miguel on July 11, 2010 at 12:32pm

Fred,
I hope you don’t mind the lengthy reply but I gave some thought to your post.

In this whole so called discussion you were the only person that honestly sought to understand everyone’s perspective. You remained polite and even playful when these folks turned on you and eventually became quite nasty towards you.

It is easy enough to be chummy when there is nothing at stake, but it is when a point of contention arises that people’s real nature is shown. You showed to be a mature and thoughtful person, these folks for the most part showed the extent of their intolerance.

These discussions inevitably have a strong emotional component that unless the person you’re have the discussion with is mature, thoughtful and articulate their emotions get the better of them and you get what you witnessed here.

As far as being a guerrilla theist, I can only laugh. I do understand where such a notion would come from. Not from my arguments or challenges but from their need to defend, as I stated earlier, the untenable position that some else’s beliefs excuses their rude and mocking behavior. That position is at face value indefensible, the only possible venue they could take is to discrete me, either by accusing me of being a theist or to discrete the story of the lady who lost her daughter. These are common logic fallacies of rhetoric that obdurate people naturally gravitate to because it has the basic emotional appeal of diminishing the other person.

I really do hope you don’t feel bad. These folks don’t represent atheists even at AN. A couple of AN members that did not participate in this ‘discussion’ messaged me to say as much. If we were to let our feelings be dictated by the weaknesses of others, we could feel nothing but bad since (most unfortunately) intolerant dolts far outnumber thoughtful considerate people.

Permalink Reply by Roy The Infidel on July 11, 2010 at 12:48pm