I sometime read religious boards and it amazes and disappoints me how much religious zealots and atheist have in common – the absolute and righteous certainty that they at the exclusion of others possess knowledge/revelations that makes them the bearers of the truth.   

Recently on a different Atheist discussion board a lady that had just lost her young daughter wrote about her religious experience and of the comfort she receivers from her faith.  She politely shared her heart breaking story and even offered words of kindness.  The replies were predictably brutal and mocking, barely a shred of compassion for a mother that lost her child.  I made my best to present my atheist point of view to this lady but I did so with respect, compassion and understanding.  I also felt ashamed for my fellow atheists.

I see it here too at nexus, the same hubris and arrogance that at times is such that some individuals proclaim that their philosophies are “my own religion” while others are themselves “…my own religion” and their church is “my flesh and blood”.  Does this sound strangely familiar?  I suppose soon we will have Gods among us. 

Before we all get too heady from over indulging in the advantages of having the weight of evidence in our favor, we should remember that pointing out the irrationality of religion is as-easy-as- shooting-fish-in-a-barrel!  The real challenge is offering something better.

We are no better than those that dismiss us and demean us for being atheist if we dismiss and demean them for being believers. The belittling of others only diminishes us and at the very least makes us as misguided as we see theists to be.

It would serve us all well to remember that before presenting our carefully constructed arguments we could show something very simple – respect – and maybe even modesty.

If you believe that logic and reason offers superior guidance than mysticism and religion then BE the example.   

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Miguel: It has been my experience that when people remain unable to defend an untenable position, especially one as contradictory as asserting that their ‘superior’ reasoning excuses their rude and disrespectful behavior, there is a predictable descent into attempts at ridicule, accessions that their numbers are evidence of being right, name calling, profanity and at last threats. It is unfortunate that atheists follow the same pattern as the likes of evangelicals and Tea Party zealots.

That's simply staggering. That tops the member here who once accused me of "what are you? Fucking Gandhi?" Unfortunately, this years Bulwer-Lytton prize is taken.

My position is that you are a broken sewer pipe of typhos. I don't need to defend it. I don't need to lift a finger. You are doing all the work. My only question is that if you are indeed yet another guerrilla evangelist, how are you going to go about dragging this out further since you are not getting quite the evidence of atheist intolerance that gives you a boner and you so deeply crave.

Your babble actually reminds me of a chap in here some months ago using similar verbal gastric promoting his thesis that civil western society only exists because of the Catholic church. His method was remarkably similar - a denial of service attack via nonsense overload coupled with superior indignation at not being taken as seriously as he so deeply deserved. You are awesome.
From your very first comment t was obvious you would inevitable descend into insults and profanity. Some of your ‘friends’ were still a tossup but not you I’m afraid. Although that’s not much of a prediction – understanding the nature of a dolt is not particularly challenging.

What disappoints me, and I really do mean this, is the astonishing consistency of idiocy that makes ‘debating’ people like you so tediously predictable and boring! I was enjoying a beer looking forward to capping my evening with a good debate but no you just can’t muster anything remotely challenging.

I really should be more understanding though. Anyone unfortunate enough to have both delusions of mental superiority and the intellectual capacity of an imbecile has no option but rely on aggressively mocking others, lest they be exposed for the idiot they really are. Whatever, you are as you are.

Oh yeah, nearly forgot, I like the guerrilla, infiltrator angle, that’s new, not your idea but I still like it.
Miguel: I was enjoying a beer looking forward to capping my evening with a good debate but no you just can’t muster anything remotely challenging.


The debate you're after is spelled "turbate" and has a "mas-" prefix.
: ) Ok that was funny.
So, I am not supposed to be rude ? I have every right to be rude to people whom are being rude to me by disturbing my peace at my door, repeatedly accusing me of all sorts of heresy. This is my home and I have the right to choose who enters or leaves. Sometimes the use of reason is ignored because they are so busy looking for answers in their bibles instead of digesting the contents and answering themselves for them selves. I am normally rational and compassionate but I am afraid that flies out the window whenever I am criticised for being what I am a non-believer. After years of encounters I am afraid I do not have the patience any more. As for compassion I have found very little in comments from most contributors in the discussions I have taken part in. What I have found is that each individual is full of their own importance and opinions with little regard to others, they are more interested in writing intellectual essays than helping others. I came here looking for friendship with like-minded people not to be lectured or preached to as how I should or should not behave. If I find someone is being rude to me than I will certainly be rude back.
No John I do not confuse your rudeness with lack of compassion, quite the opposite, you have shown a very passionate side to you personality, in a number of comments.

I have learned over the years to stand up for myself, if this means being rude back then I am rude. I can't stand to listen to God be praised because I have had it since childhood and am sick to the teeth of hearing it. At present we are getting a visit from el Papa himself, it is costing £12million to stage the event, meanwhile the country is in recession and people are being asked to foot the bill for this visit. I am furious and being very rude about the whole affair, written to the Glasgow Council Chambers and complained and encouraged others to do the same. My thoughts are that if the Catholics want this visit they should fund it. He has also requested a meeting with the victims of the paedophile priests, no mention of the girls brutalised by nuns by the way, how would you approach this situation, calmly and nicely ? No your voice would not be heard over the sound of the bused in,trained in,boated in and flights of the followers of this man. If it were left to the Scottish people to attend there would be more victims in the park than parishioners, it will look good on the telly all this shipped in support, but is it good for us the people who live here no. Sometimes there is no substitute for self satisfaction than being rude.
We keep discussing about this woman/ mother who lost her daughter. I have requested for a link to the site where this discussion supposedly took place.

This is my third attempt. I am still waiting for the link.

I want to know if this incident really happened and I am interested to find out what Miguel posted as well as from those that he described as brutal and mocking.
Yes. I'm starting to question Miguel's motives. This whole story has the trite air of a Sunday school parable. Neat and digestible, designed for the uncritical audience.
Roy,

As I mentioned earlier, I’m not going to ambush people that took part in another conversation by placing their comments in the public square. I don’t wish to publicly shame anyone much in the same way that I would not go through our comments to copy and paste them elsewhere.

My reply to this lady was lengthy so bellow are what I think the most relevant parts of my comments to the lady that lost her daughter. I think you will find that I did not back off from challenging her views but I did so as politely as I could.

My reply:

W---, thank you for taking the time write and share with us words that must have been difficult to write…

[…] I understand that [your faith] was not born of out of calculated reasoning or prolonged deliberation on the paradox of miracles in a world subject to natural laws. Rather it was born out of great pain and the need to come to terms with the unfathomable… There could be no other way of accepting the existence of a benevolent God when a child is taken from you unless you have faith that there will be a later explanation that can resolve the loss of that child.

[… ] I can understand the role that religion and faith have in many people’s lives but we must also acknowledge that although religion may be a source of comfort and maybe even wisdom, religion and faith are not the tools for the advancement of knowledge or society.

Take for example what you said about cancer, you are attributing your cancer to your anger with God after the loss of your daughter. I have friends that do research on cancer and AIDS and have made significant contributions to our understanding of both. What if they and others like them were to quit and simply say if don’t want cancer then “you need to come to terms with God.”

It’s projected that cancer rates will increase by 40% in the next 20 years. What should we do? I don’t mean to sound harsh but these are the facts and if we think that God is behind things like cancer then why look for a cure?

…not the greatest of hope nor the greatest of grief can change that Nature and the world is as we find it and not as we hope or dream it to be. And what a wondrous and fascinating world it is.

W---, I shared [my own experience of loss] to show you that in grief and pain we all turn to what we know to look for consolation. I tried to reason the existence of a universal justice that would allow me to not only be with my wife once more but to see the boy I never saw. But that is a dream that when bittersweet memories creep up I find solace in. Still, I separate my dreams from the world of the here and now because in my limited time on this planet I would like to make a difference through my work and the problems at hand require that I face the world as it is.

Again, I'm sorry about the loss of your girl. I hope that you are well.
Miguel


Did I abdicate reason in light of her tragic loss? I don’t think so.

What would have been gained if I ridiculed her statements that her “Dad” is Jesus or that the story of Jobe explains all suffering? I highly doubt that my comments influenced her in any way, but I don’t have to pre-empt her irrationality with my own by mocking her.


Miguel, I need Proof of Life. I need the exact time in print your supposed reply above became live.

Before you venture into a demolition job, make sure you have the proper tools. Until you supply me with the proper links (do a screen-shot!) I will consider this tale of bereavement pure fiction not from a theist mole but CLOSE enough.

If I am wrong about this, my molestake, err mistake. :)
I explained my reasons for not posting other people's comments in another website without their permission and I certainly am not going to the trouble to try to get it.

How many people openly and even proudly admitted to being rude on this very discussion and you need proof are you kidding?

I will have to leave you with the satisfaction of believing that I'm a theist mole.
No, I am not kidding.

I am not defending the people here who disagreed with you as they are perfectly capable of defending themselves. You provoked them. Theist mole, troll? All the same.

If I was politely requesting for proof in my previous posts, now I am demanding it.

My concern is your story of the bereaved mother. Fact or Fiction? I asked for proof, you just keep on evading it. As things stand, it is fiction and you just manufactured it.

I leave it to the thinking A|N members to decide who is the clown here.

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