The arrogance of being right

I sometime read religious boards and it amazes and disappoints me how much religious zealots and atheist have in common – the absolute and righteous certainty that they at the exclusion of others possess knowledge/revelations that makes them the bearers of the truth.

Recently on a different Atheist discussion board a lady that had just lost her young daughter wrote about her religious experience and of the comfort she receivers from her faith. She politely shared her heart breaking story and even offered words of kindness. The replies were predictably brutal and mocking, barely a shred of compassion for a mother that lost her child. I made my best to present my atheist point of view to this lady but I did so with respect, compassion and understanding. I also felt ashamed for my fellow atheists.

I see it here too at nexus, the same hubris and arrogance that at times is such that some individuals proclaim that their philosophies are “my own religion” while others are themselves “…my own religion” and their church is “my flesh and blood”. Does this sound strangely familiar? I suppose soon we will have Gods among us.

Before we all get too heady from over indulging in the advantages of having the weight of evidence in our favor, we should remember that pointing out the irrationality of religion is as-easy-as- shooting-fish-in-a-barrel! The real challenge is offering something better.

We are no better than those that dismiss us and demean us for being atheist if we dismiss and demean them for being believers. The belittling of others only diminishes us and at the very least makes us as misguided as we see theists to be.

It would serve us all well to remember that before presenting our carefully constructed arguments we could show something very simple – respect – and maybe even modesty.

If you believe that logic and reason offers superior guidance than mysticism and religion then BE the example.

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Permalink Reply by Miguel on July 10, 2010 at 4:11pm

There are all sorts of negative or reprehensible behaviors that can be used as a tool. Murder is one such tool so is intimidation. Their unquestionable effectiveness most often does not justify their use.

I am just as human as you are and I am just as tempted to lash out as anyone else. Still, if we justify being rude then so can others. I think it is goal of good people and reasonable to elevate any discourse to a higher level. I think as atheist we should strive to be the ones to do it.

Permalink Reply by Sicile on July 10, 2010 at 4:51pm

Ill say this. If I disagree with someone and they are a jackass to me because I don't see things their way, I am very likely to dismiss whatever they are saying without checking into it further. (human nature?) If however, they have a respectful conversation with me and state their opinions without making me feel ignorant (though ignorant about their beliefs I may be) then I am very likely to consider what they say and begin looking into it further. As a matter of a fact it was some very kind, well-put words from a quiet sort of fellow that made me start looking into atheistic views in the first place. I guess it all boils down to your intentions. If your intent is to enhance your view of yourself, then I guess rudeness, ridicule, and talking down to people is the way to go. IF the goal is to promote knowledge and truth then mannerisms that welcome people (oh, say kindness, understanding, ect.) would probably be the most successful. Guess it's all in the intent

Permalink Reply by Roy The Infidel on July 10, 2010 at 12:08am

Could the author of this post please provide us with the link/s for this discussion that he describes as predictably brutal and mocking replies?

Permalink Reply by Roy The Infidel on July 10, 2010 at 3:01am

Miguel Fernandes: The replies were predictably brutal and mocking, barely a shred of compassion for a mother that lost her child. I made my best to present my atheist point of view to this lady but I did so with respect, compassion and understanding. I also felt ashamed for my fellow atheists.

I see it here too at nexus, the same hubris and arrogance....

Link please.

Permalink Reply by Miguel on July 10, 2010 at 2:06pm

On the issue of a link to the discussion that I originally referred to - the answer is NO.

The original discussion took place in a site that requires membership but more importantly I will not blindside those that took part in the discussion by placing all of them in the witness box, most especially a lady that shared an intimate story about losing her daughter.

I think the issue of arrogance and rudeness in atheism is sufficiently well known especially by atheists themselves that it does not require that I publicly shame anyone to make that point.

If it were not an issue it would not come up numerous times on this site and others like it, as many of you have bemoaned, and it would not lead to the splintering of atheists groups.

Permalink Reply by Sicile on July 10, 2010 at 12:32am

So true. (hey mtmig)

You know, I remember when I was in theatre in HS, thinking that I liked this group of people because they had this, "be who you are - not what the crowd wants you to be" mentality. I loved that! I was do taken with it! Then I found out that that only applied to others like them. I, being different from them, was not quite welcomed into their circle. I found it so odd that they didn't practice what they preached.

I have noticed something similar among these atheist discussion boards. I have found this bit of arrogance that "I know I am right" and "you are ignorant if you don't believe as I do" among some of the discussions. I agree that we need to be careful not come off as pretentious "know-it-alls". And as always , I thnk we should never get complacent - we always need to push further for truth, remembering that our truth one day may be another's myth tomorrow!

Sicile

Permalink Reply by Miguel on July 10, 2010 at 1:04am

Cicile your experience in HS is a great way of explaining an experience that many of us have not just in HS but throughout life. Everyone wants to belong and to do so there the implicit expectation that the group dues is that we sing the same gospel.

There is something to be said about remaining the black sheep.

Permalink Reply by Фелч Гроган on July 10, 2010 at 12:39am

Miguel Fernandes: How bizarre that someone that makes an effort to suggest how atheist might become more affective could be a potential infiltrator.

Maybe you could organize a virtual witch burning for me and anyone else that might be considering expressing a descending or challenging view. You could jump over to one of the evangelical websites and ask how they handle blasphemy in their flock.

Now you're just being a contrarian idiot. Which is precisely how guerrilla theists have behaved on numerous occassions in the past. The routine goes like this -

* Start a discussion accusing atheists of arrogance and intolerance. Add plenty of holier-than-thou special sauce. As an extra garnish, sprinkle with a dash of something Socratic.

* Repeat above formula ad nauseum and introduce sarcasm to show how cleverly you've proved your point even when you have done nothing of the sort.

* Wait for someone to slip and call you for the idiot that you are.

* Run back god-freaks with your "evidence of intolerance".

You see if you actually made some effort to search the site for previous discussions on this theme you would find no shortage of them. But you haven't. This is a dead horse. You are flogging it. You are now at the senseless hyperbole and reductio ad absurdum stage. I'm not saying you are a theist mole. Just that you are indistinguishable from one.

Now, what if John D or Phil, for example, sat next to this young lady instead of my friend? From what they have said so far we would expect that they would likely have ruddily told that she was an idiot for believing such crap.

You are such a presumptuous idiot. It's amazing. How do your self-contradictions not cause your head to vapourise from dissonance overload?

Permalink Reply by Miguel on July 10, 2010 at 1:26am

I presume that in all the previous discussions on this theme you also exposed those who started them as insidious theist infiltrators. Maybe instead of a theist conspiracy to foment strife it’s a real issue.

Permalink Reply by Фелч Гроган on July 10, 2010 at 2:31am

If you're naive enough to venture into theist/atheist forums and expect civility, then you should stop using the 'net altogether. That's why I and many others are here. This is a social site, not a forum site. And I reserve the right to be as rude as I please to dicks regardless of their religion or lack of. Stupidity is not a virtue, has no special status and cannot and should not be excused for the sake of "politeness".

Permalink Reply by Фелч Гроган on July 10, 2010 at 4:17am

Whom here in AN are stupid in your eyes?

Atheist and stupid are not mutually exclusive. Atheists certainly have no right to be smug and wave around studies that "prove" they're smarter. Some of the most jaw dropping dumbness I have ever seen has been mouthed by people who claim to be atheists right here. Did you know the Jews own the Vatican? Apparently they do. You can learn a LOT from some members of this site.

Permalink Reply by D R Hosie on July 10, 2010 at 3:19am