Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Miguel on July 5, 2010 at 1:21pm

Demeaning, mocking, ridiculing and being disrespectful have nothing to do with facts or how people respond to having their views being challenged.

Theist and atheists alike don’t like being challenged and yes, people are often rude when they are challenged.

But as I have stated earlier, just because you think the facts support of point of view, there is nothing to be gained by being disrespectful and arrogant.

Permalink Reply by Фелч Гроган on July 6, 2010 at 4:32am

John D: Rudeness is a tool. Just like anger and humor and politeness. They are all just tools. You prove that rudeness is never a good tool and I will think about changing my behavior.

“The citizen's job is to be rude - to pierce the comfort of professional intercourse by boorish expressions of doubt” -- John Ralston Saul

Permalink Reply by Jaume on July 6, 2010 at 4:40am

"There is a measurable portion of the population here, whose week isn't complete unless he's made someone cry. And I'm one of them." -- Vinnie Jordan

Permalink Reply by Фелч Гроган on July 6, 2010 at 5:43am

"I hate you for better reasons than you hate me." -- Jim Goad

Permalink Reply by Loren Miller on July 5, 2010 at 1:33pm

Oh, I AM polite ... I'm also ruthless. I do not call names, but I do not spare facts in my arguments, nor am I given to tolerating BS on the part of my opponent's attempts to counter or obfuscate the matter at hand.

If they can't deal with the truth, the door to the kitchen is THAT way ===>.

Permalink Reply by Miguel on July 5, 2010 at 8:24pm

Shanon,

I also know a little about hostility. Should try being a wildlife biologist in a small western town with two lumber mills and one of the largest open-pit mines in the world.

I was threatened and ran off the road by militias, I was shot at with an AK-47 and had a shotgun barrel inches from my nose but I always came back if possible the very next freaking day. Most of my coworkers did not like me because I was a commy and an atheist (but mostly because I actually did my job) and the ranchers and mine people didn’t like me because I worked for Feds.

Through it all I never disrespected anyone, even though at times I was burning with rage. I am proud to say that by the time I left I had earned the respect of most of my coworkers who awarded me with a distinction and the rancher that stuck a shotgun in my face, offered to let me do my dissertation research on his land.

We can’t always win people over, and most often I don’t, but we can choose to be decent and respectful men.

Permalink Reply by Richard on July 5, 2010 at 2:56pm

Personally I am as polite to religious people as they are to me.

I know several who know who and what ( atheist and gay) I am and treat me with utmost respect and

I treat them the same way.

I can't say that about the majority of them though,if I get hostility then I give it.

Permalink Reply by funk Q on July 5, 2010 at 10:19pm

If people choose to live their lives in public forums they have to take what comes. Atheists, unlike those addicted to faith, are individually responsible for their actions so, if they're hostile or if they're compassionate, it's how each individual reacts to the situation.

Everybody should be able to freely express whatever view they have, regardless of some arbitrary value assessment. It may upset you that others don't act the way you'd like but that's what freedom is.

Permalink Reply by Фелч Гроган on July 6, 2010 at 5:44am

Attitudes and a behaviors are not free speech.

Fuck off Fred Nevermind.

Permalink Reply by Loren Miller on July 6, 2010 at 7:16am

Attitudes and a behaviors are not free speech.

I beg to differ. To restate the founding concept behind "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day:"

NO ONE has the right not to be offended.

Attitude is likely incorporated into the concept of free speech, and so long as behaviors do not physically impact someone other than the actor, it also falls under the same category, or they are in the US, so far as I know. Certainly, manners are important, and civility generally aids conduct of a reasonable discussion. Our opponents frequently violate this principle in their attempts to debate or convert us ... and while I don't think much of ad hominem attacks as a part of such discussion, continued behavior of this sort on the part of the theists will eventually cause me to "take the kid gloves off," and frankly rip their arguments apart without consideration for the feelings or attitudes of the opposition.

As I stated before, I will remain polite, but I can be polite while simultaneously "tearing them a new one."

Permalink Reply by funk Q on July 6, 2010 at 3:15pm

Fred: ethics and morals are man made concepts. They have no reality outside the brain. They are also mutable and subject to change in the attitudes of communities over time. They are the tools/weapons used by different groups in an effort to impose their values on others.

Most probably, the people accused of arrogance and rudness have their own ethics and morals (unless they've evolved past such metaphysical mumbo jumbo), they just differ from those of the OP. Do you think a particular set of ethics and morals should be imposed on everybody just so nobody gets upset?

Attitudes and a behaviors are not free speech.

I think attitudes and behaviour are the basis of free speech. Trying to berate and chastise others for expressing derision, contempt, empathy or even love is the antithesis of freedom

Permalink Reply by Dale on July 6, 2010 at 4:27pm

I think I will have to agree with Funk and Lorne on this one. Attitudes and Behavior definitely fall under free speech. It is like the question of having the right to not be offended. Some people find it rude for you to curse, I personally like to save those for when I am in a bad mood. But, it is a matter of free speech to do so at any given moments. Just like some people have the right to be grumpy and upset.

I take great pleasure in trying to fight what I consider offensive in polite terms, but every once in awhile it is enjoyable just to be slightly offensive and rip into people and lowering my English to less formal and less polite forms.

As far as morality goes, and I am sure some people will object, I have not found any form of objective morality, as it is something that I find to be a combination of the individual and societal norms that negotiate the moral/ethical behaviors of a person.

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