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Permalink Reply by Linda on October 31, 2010 at 1:17pm

It's like they cast a "charm" spell over us. I am very much not a fan of Glenn Beck or Bill O'Reilly, but I force myself to listen to them from time to time just for a different point of view. And sometimes I *almost* find myself agreeing with them.

@ Maia - I also try occasionally. I can only take about 5 minutes of Beck (unless he starts talking about religion or the founding fathers or starts writing a lot on those retarded black boards) - then it's total eye roll and time for an instant channel change. I have to admit that Beck cracks me up with the way his body language and facial expressions communicate his complete exasperation with liberals. If it was not for that comedy, I could not listen to word one of anything he had to say so I guess you could say that for me (that is "his charm").

He keeps me listening only because I enjoy seeing him get so worked up but then I know what you mean when sometimes he says somethig and you *almost* find yourself agreeing with him. I can see how to liberals there is nothing seductive about it - to them his brain is plain out of commission and he is a nothing but a ranting lunatic. I also crack up at Colbert and Stewarts' satirical ways expressing their complete exasperation with repubs.

Now O'Reilly - basically the same thing. I find his brisk, no bullshit, no nonesense, cut to the chase, aggressive, don't give a crap about being diplomatic manner rather comedic. I can take about 15 minutes of him, occasionally.

Jason wrote:
But whenever anybody sounds like they're giving you a good argument, always ask yourself what they are leaving out.

Yeah, that's what got me into this mess in the first place (tying to find out about the things "they" are not telling me). So you could say it is good that I did not simply close my mind down and decide to no longer seek for a different perspective because if it were not for my willingnes to do that very same thing back when I was a Christian - I would NOT be on this forum today - I'd be sitting on a bench pew, sacrificing another piece of my brain at the alter at each Sunday morning service.

The process of leaving my beloved Christian faith was an extremely painful one - it took about a year and it was 30 years ago but it is something I will never forget and that pain that I suffered is why I am so passionately participating in these atheists forums at this time. God only knows (just an expression) how much grief I could have saved myself had forums such as these existed back then so I am sure that people struggling with their faith today will be able to resolve the matter more quickly in these times due to easier access to knowledge and others' perspectives. This can create a snowball or critical mass situation for the cause of atheism and atheism become an very important political influence. I hope to live to see this happen. It would be very exciting.

One more thing I wanted to add. I have had an epiphany lol. I now define the Tea Party in this way - A large group of angry frustrated Americans that have gained popularity due to their "easy answer" stance (when in fact - there are no easy answers).

Someone from this thread e-mailed me about this "easy answer" angle and that struck the deepest chord of all within me. But of course, all of the members participating on this thread have also compelled me to abandon my sympathetic leanings toward the Tea Party.

Didn't someone else on this thread compare the "easy answer" seductive component of religion to that of what is causing the successful momentum of the Tea Party? I seem to recall such a post. Who were you? I have dial-up and it would be too difficult to find that post.

I guess you still have to give them credit for exposing the social climate in this country that peoples frustrations in this country are getting to the "boiling point". When a lot of people begin to reach this stage - interesting things can begin to happen. Let's try to find the time now and again to grab some popcorn and enjoy the show. If somehow this ole world as we know it survives - this period in time will be a fascinating read in the history books or on the Kendalls or whatever the hell they will having going on in the future.

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Permalink Reply by david perry on October 31, 2010 at 3:36pm

Ancient Chinese Curse:

"May you live in interesting times."

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Permalink Reply by Linda on October 31, 2010 at 5:07pm

Ancient Chinese Curse:

"May you live in interesting times."

Love that! Funny. How fitting.

Yes, the word "interesting" is a loaded adjective.

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Permalink Reply by Jason Spicer on October 31, 2010 at 9:20pm

Yeah, that is a great line. People are much more likely to survive and thrive during boring and predictable times.

And Linda, I think the "easy answer" depiction of the Teabaggers is about right. They really seem to try pretty hard to avoid thinking in complex terms. That usually leads to disaster in politics. (I also can't remember who raised the "easy answer" idea on the thread.)

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Permalink Reply by Jason Spicer on October 31, 2010 at 12:32pm

Park, that's one of my pet peeves. In our evolutionary history, competition and cooperation were both important. I personally believe that cooperation is by far the more important tendency, but libertarians seem to think that competition is all that matters. That leads to some really bizarre and inhumane conclusions, but on its surface, who could seriously disagree that competition can inspire excellence?

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Permalink Reply by Park Bierbower on October 31, 2010 at 12:37pm

I don't think anyone would argue that. Competition is by definition a degree of excellence, but anyone who would think that it is the core to a prosperous society doesn't understand human cognition and welfare. Competition is a byproduct of a successful society, not the core of it. unless there is a moderate level of safety and quality to the masses, competition doesn't develop.

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Permalink Reply by Park Bierbower on October 31, 2010 at 2:19pm

I also find interesting the idea of a more comprehensive sense of infrastructure, to include utilities and possibly housing and food as well. if those were funded through taxes and a socialized program, much more of the remaining income of an individual would be disposable, hence opening up opportunities for more competition in the markets, since they mostly rely on disposable income anyways. not to mention that the expansion of regulated infrastructure could allow us to cut funding for other social welfare programs...if anyone has any thoughts on that let me know, its an idea i've been toying with.

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Permalink Reply by Dan DuPree on November 1, 2010 at 7:42am

We can't get off oil because the oil industry controls our national energy policy. We will continue to jump from one war to another because our national defense policy is run by the defense industry. Healthcare policy is decided by the insurance and pharmaceutical industries. We have deregulated the banking industry to the point where the institutions that we use to save our citizens money can use that money for high risk investments, then we are forced to bail them out when those investments fail.
We as a nation let our most critical national interest be governed by the for profit industries that provide them to us. So these critical interest are strictly profit motivated instead of motivated for the benifit of the nation that maintains there profit and monopolies. This will never be fixed as long as our political system is for sale to the highest bidder. Campaign finance reform, term limits and sunshine laws help, but our gov't will never operate for the interest of its citizens above that of the corporation until those critical functions are nationalized. Profit motivation just does not belong in defense, health or national resources, but the republicans would have us privatize even our education system, jails and infrastructure. When the gov't exist only for the benefit of the corporation, we move closer to a bloodless fascist takover of our nation.

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Permalink Reply by david perry on October 31, 2010 at 5:16pm

These two were recently spotted at a tea party rally.

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Permalink Reply by Linda on October 31, 2010 at 9:57pm

Ha ha ha! Love the look on the ladies face. She's like "huh? wha?" Clueless - Ba ha ha.

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Permalink Reply by david perry on October 31, 2010 at 5:35pm

I wrote this a few months ago. While not just specifically about the tea party it sums up what I think all the noise is really about.

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Permalink Reply by Susan Stanko on October 31, 2010 at 5:58pm

Well said.

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