I would like to do a piece on my blog, Releasing Religion, regarding mixing God & government.  And I'd like to know what opinions people have here about doing such a thing.  Some points to mention are:

Glenn Beck is well known for arguing that we have misunderstood that founding fathers & their desire to keep church & state separate.  Holding his rally on 8/28, he gathered 150.000 people to hear him talk about bringing out country "back to God".  What do you think it would do to our country to "get back to God"? 

The Tea Party has been called racist Chrisotcrats. In their recent convention, most conference sessions began with prayers.  What do you think of the Tea Party?  Do you know very little about them?  Do you know a lot?  Please share your thoughts here.

The piece will be posted on www.releasingreligion.blogspot.com









Tags: 8/28, Beck, Christocrats, Glenn, Honor, Party, Rally, Restoring, Tea

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I encourage you to continue doing what you're doing... to go to as many other sites and get as many other sources of information as you can, then form your own opinion. That is, ultimately, how you became an atheist I presume? So question, question, question.

Maia - True very true.

So I salute you for admitting when you aren't aware of something, or when you learn something new here in this forum.

Thank you. I am totally thrilled when someone corrects me. I'm no fact checker. Many times I am greatly relieved to discover I had something wrong that was disturbing to me.

There is a reason this president is under attack

As soon as I found out about the Reverend Wright thing - I was done with Obama.

but I think where people get upset is that he points out what instigated this aggression towards America in the first place.

There is no excuse for murdering almost 3000 innocent unsuspecting civilians. Not in my world of atheist morals. How any atheist can give ANY sympathy to what the radical Muslims did is beyond me. I'm not saying you are or that anybody on this site is - I'm just saying. You say the Iman guy condemns the acts of terrorism. Not to my standards he hasn't. I want a nationwide special address statement televised on all regular stations at the same time just like when the president gives an important speech. I want him to declare that the radical Muslims that commited the 911 act of terror will not go to the Muslim heaven and fuck 70 virgins or whatever the hell. Then I would be happy to throw red roses on a red carpet for construction workers to make their way to the mosque site to lay the first brick.

If Billy Graham can tell millions of Americans they will burn in eternal hell if they do not believe in Jesus Christ as their savior than the Iman guy can say what I want him to say. But it will never happen. For one thing he would be assasinated shortly afterward.

Can't anybody see how insane this is! An American citizen cannot condemn an act of terrorism in any meanginful way because it will mean certain assasination.

Jesus H. Christ on a jumpin jehosaphat cricket stick. Sometimes I think either I'm losing it - or the world is losing it - or we are all losing it together.

He is a target now, and that is really so unfortunate. Seems to me that is another form of terrorism, it's just focused on one person.

Well what the hell did he think was going to happen when he got involved in such an insane proposal as putting a mosque near ground zero? Some people thrive off danger. He's one of those. That's the only explanation I can come up with. I'll admit that I saw his wife on a panel discussion (I think it was CNN) and I learned things about Muslims I did not know but I don't give a hoot about moderate Muslims anymore than I give a hoot about moderate Christians - I'm concerned with the radical terrorist Muslims and until I see Muslims jumping up and down on CNN or Fox and crying about what an atrocity the 911 act of terrorism was - I'm suspicious and fearful. How can you blame me?

Instead what do I have? Hmm, I have Rosie O'donnel spouting some insane nonsense about the government's involvement in 911.

Hmm, so why do I feel so frustrated? and some vague strange kinship with the tpers?

I have no earthly idea what made me come out with all this stuff today. I just blew my lid I guess.

Thanks for the article suggestion. I'll read it. The tpers are probably just a flash in the pan anyway. I honestly don't know what the answers are anymore. I don't think anybody does. The more I try to figure things out the more mysterious things seem.

Oh well, I celebrate that I am free to discuss my thoughts with others such as people on this website. I'd rather be confused and free than indoctrinated and secure in the prison of my own mind (uh, cause I've been there and it was 1 million times worse).
I'm thinking it's a little easier for a president of the United States to commandeer the airwaves than for any imam to do so, regardless of circumstances. And I don't recall any Christian preachers condemning McVeigh for doing what he perceived to be God's work.

Linda, I get that you're angry about 9/11. You should be. We all are. And there is no excuse for the murder of 3,000 innocents (any more than the US has any excuse for the deaths of innocents in Iraq, which had zero to do with 9/11). But there are explanations. Bin Laden and Co think they have legitimate grievances against the US government. So did McVeigh. I'm having a hard time coming up with any significant distinction between the two.

The only reason I can see that McVeigh isn't as reviled as bin Laden is that he was born in America and culturally more similar to most Americans than the more alien bin Laden. This isn't a reason to cut bin Laden any slack. But it is a reason to question the biases of the people who have conveniently forgotten about McVeigh. If you want to complain about Islamic facilities near Ground Zero (as though there were any such thing as sacred ground, but that's another debate), then you are really going to have to object just as strongly to any Christian facilities near federal buildings.
Linda, I understand your emotional reaction, but keep in mind that it wasn't the entire Muslim world who attacked us on 9/11, or even a majority. It's not like they held a vote. It was a gang of radicals. I'm pretty pissed off at the circles that Timothy McVeigh moved in who encouraged him to blow up the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, but I don't blame all Christians and wouldn't object to a church being built near the site.

To be sure, there are plenty of assholes in the Muslim world who support bin Laden and were happy to see the results of his attack, but I just don't see this proposed Islamic community center as a victory parade or in any way dancing on the graves of the victims.
It's not a Mosque.
Yes, and thank you for the correction Susan. I should have called it a Community Center.
If you neocons think you have so much reason to be afraid because Shrub turned off the US security network and invited his Cuz Bin Laden to attack America, imagine the fear for millions of muslims who have seen us kill 4-500,000 non-combatants in Iraq, drive millions more into exile, and destroy a nation that had nothing to do with 9/11. The US is the most aggressivley terrorist state in the world, and the Tea Party are their Christian Cheer Leaders. Fear, Fear, Fear AMERICA. The rest of the world is afraid of us, and the Tea Party raises that angst. The Tea Party is so afraid, so confident they are right and so entrenched in self interest, the whole world will suffer for their hubris if they gain any true political power.
Your statement above makes me cringe; but I don't find any part of it untrue. It is a sad truth that as a nation we are wholly ignorant to the worlds perception of our actions. The 9/11 tragedy was awful, there is no arguing that those people were not people who deserved to die; but we seem to think, as a country, that it was UNPROVOKED. it was not. the change of foreign policy procedures since the fifties has made us enemies all around the world, and has unjustly interfered with millions of lives in a negative way. 9/11 can be seen as the discontent throwing a stone at the riot police.
~it is this lack of perspective as a country that compounds our troubles. "The world does not hate us for what we stand for, they hate us for what we do."
"The world does not hate us for what we stand for, they hate us for what we do."

If the world hates us so damn much then why do they keep coming here in droves?

Simple question.
"If the world hates us so damn much then why do they keep coming here in droves?}

are they? are you sure? Have you compared immigration rates of the US to other countries?

This is what happens. We make assumptions on what we believe, but is that belief based on facts, or falsehoods?

Personaly I think it's important to know that what I believe has a foundation in based on reality.
Easy answer. Its a group perception of us, not each individual person. Whilst you may not have much opinion of whats going on in burma, you may still be inclined to vacation there. not to mention that people keep moving EVERYWHERE. Europe has a much higher immigration rate of muslims than the US, hence the problems the UK and Europe are facing dealing with the rising influence of islam in their countries. People come here for opportunity, not because they agree with us. if you desperately needed welfare, but disagreed with the concept, would you let yourself starve to death? its the same principle
Wow, it's like I come to dinner at your home not because I like you but because I like your food.

And on top of that, I know that you don't like me and want to hurt me and yet I still keep giving you an open invitation.

if you desperately needed welfare, but disagreed with the concept, would you let yourself starve to death? its the same principle

Hell no! Of course not. But if someone put a gun in my face and told me I was dead if I touched their food, I'd back down.

So guess what? If you invite too many people to dinner you run out of food and then everybody starves.

So what is your point?
my point is that they don't come here because they agree. you asked "if they hate us why do they come here in droves?" (amount is arguable) its because this country is a better opportunity for them, regardless of our interactions around the world. hell, they are better off here because we treat people here MUCH better than where they were at before. thats the point, the easy answer to the easy question

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