Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Phil on October 25, 2010 at 3:08pm

I have a Canadian significant other and British Columbia has always been our Plan B. It only snows two days a year in Victoria.

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Permalink Reply by Earther on October 25, 2010 at 7:57pm

Okay, here is the deal. What will our government allow them to do beyond what they already allow? That is the tipping point for conversation. There beliefs you see specifically with the Tea Party will show up everywhere you are today. Any efficient thought you have to make life progressive for good there is someone out there to challenge it. That is the world we live in. Can you believe any court in the nation would allow the continuous injustice of "don't ask don't tell"? It still exists! Prejudices sometimes has to be treated as road blocks, You can't always change it and fix it to go through it, sometimes you have to take another road.

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Permalink Reply by LarryL on October 25, 2010 at 8:16pm

Prejudices sometimes has to be treated as road blocks, You can't always change it and fix it to go through it, sometimes you have to take another road.

woa! Should we have tried another road when trying to abolish slavery? Women's right to vote? Civil Rights? It may take a while, but I don't think we should ever stop correcting societal wrongs.

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Permalink Reply by Earther on October 26, 2010 at 7:28pm

That is not my point of view. I am just saying do not throw yourself under a train because you don't like what it is carrying. My concept in words is a voice of when you are confronted by the immense totality of the crowd. You should never cowar your beliefs but you should choose your battles.

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Permalink Reply by Maia Rodriguez on October 27, 2010 at 12:13am

I see what you're saying, Earther. On the other hand, seems like the only change that has been made in this country (such as the list Larry's talking about) have been with aggressive pushes for change. Perhaps what you're saying is knowing when to take that push. Am I correct? And if so, are we there yet?

Now it seems to me like that's exactly what the Tea Party is doing. They found a moment to launch themselves into (an attempted) massive overhaul of the government and the way our system works. They picked their time perfectly, it seems. And the sad part is, they have more aggressive voters. Sadly, I couldn't even get my husband to register to vote. :( So the change is coming from the far, far, far right. When is the right time to stand up to that and put a stop to it? Or is that an impossibility to achieve with moderates, independents, and liberals? Are we aggressive enough to make that change?

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Permalink Reply by Earther on October 27, 2010 at 5:54pm

I think we need to speak the truth and then step aside. Why?, you may ask. Because it does you no good to argue with a fool. These politics are spinning like a tire going down the interstate. This tire also has a bunch of holes in it. Sooner or later the tire is going to either blow or just go flat. Meantime you should continue living your life the best way you now how. It does no good to watch the tire, fuss at the tire, or try to change the tire while it is at full speed. People who want your advice about the tire will listen and change it and the ones that don't are going to end up in the ditch. I am a visual guy so I use a lot of metaphor. You know Larry said would I just stand aside while we have all the injustices of civil rights, the civil wrongs of racism, sexism and every other "isms". The truth is no, I say what I believe, the other truth is that these injustices are all over the world. Sex slaves are rampid among children, people are racially repressed, people cannot get fairness in the work place. The list is long and horrible as if the fight never existed to correct it. Read my "prejudice atheist" blog because I point out our own prejudice at being atheist. My point there is I do not believe my atheist views are wrong. We atheists all believe we are correct. That said, we have to survive, not kill. In order to survive you need to have the laws work correctly and written clearly by our law makers so they continue to be reinforced. Then we have to do it again and again and again.

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Permalink Reply by Daniel on October 26, 2010 at 1:41am

Here are some resources to check out on this issue.

http://www.theauthoritarians.com/

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/drbob/Comment%20on%20the%20Tea...

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Permalink Reply by Maia Rodriguez on October 26, 2010 at 2:22am

Okay, I just want to say this... 103 comments on this. ONE HUNDRED AND THREE. This one will make 104. I am just so amazed at how many people not only have a viewpoint on this subject, but are willing to take the time and share it. I've read through every comment... every opinion. So many of you are coming from such different backgrounds, but you are all bringing up such valid points. What started as an attempt to get a few different viewpoints is vastly turning into a novel.

And I'm not complaining. It's a key example of how passionate people can be in their knowledge, and it's refreshing to see that folks are willing to stand up for what they believe in. And thoroughly explain why. So I joined Atheist Nexus only recently, but I am stunned and impressed by the knowledge shared on this site, especially on this particular message thread. It gives me MUCH to think about, and I promise that once I have collected all my thoughts and yours, I will post the finished article up here and would love to hear your comments.

I suppose I should not be surprised that a venue such as Atheist Nexus breeds such fearlessness in expressing informed opinions. It's another example of how educated Atheists really are.

By no means does this put a stop to the conversation. Indeed, there is so much more to share on the topic. I encourage everyone to continue commenting. It's thought-provoking and like some of you said, it's how we raise awareness... a little bit at a time.

Until my Tea Party article is posted, I'll leave you with my most recent post (which I'm pretty proud of, actually). The title sort of speaks for itself. And there is a little taste of the Tea Party in it as well. Come read for yourself. It's called "Glenn Schmuck".

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Permalink Reply by LarryL on October 26, 2010 at 6:46am

It is a great discussion Maia. You did a nice job of keeping it going with the probing questions - that is an important and effective technique to really get to the bottom of an issue. Well done.

Re AN, I share your appreciation. The level of intellect, the diversity of thought and the willingness to challenge the views expressed takes this board to a level that I certainly have not seen elsewhere.

again, well done (well, except for minor transgression of the bad link on your "Glenn Schmuck" post - you have an extra http//)

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Permalink Reply by Maia Rodriguez on October 26, 2010 at 10:20am

Ha! Well, it seems I'm having trouble adding the link. Anyone can just go to www.releasingreligion.blogspot.com and check out the Glenn Schmuck post.

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Permalink Reply by LarryL on October 26, 2010 at 9:35am

Interesting TPM piece on the Tea Parties distorted views of existing laws vs the Constitution

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Permalink Reply by Park Bierbower on October 26, 2010 at 10:54am

The Recent emergence of the 'Tea Party' is, from what I can tell, a calculated strategy by the Republican Party. While they say that they are not republican, I don't see any difference from their platform and the GOP's. Succinctly, this is my problem with them. Considering they are merely an Alias from the previous establishment, there are fundamental issues with the concepts that they put forward. The two main tenants are Less Taxation and Smaller Government; and despite the incongruities that they present for their action (they say smaller government, but don't want to reduce the largest and most inefficient spending programs such as DoD, Medicare, Social Security; they say less taxation, but don't have any viable proposals on where to draw extra revenue from) their political philosophy has gaping holes in it. Government is created out of necessity, for example, the program of medicare was developed due to the rising amount of elder citizens who, while getting older and sicker, could not afford to pay as much for medications because of their age. every program in the government has been developed from a need, a problem seen and assessed to need resolution. So, to reduce the size and functionality of Gov't would be to eliminate some programs that serve a function. This is not the resolution to a problem. What should be touted is Responsible government, not Less government.
Taxation will always be a problem to people. who wants to give up money? but it serves an immensely important purpose, to fund programs that all americans benefit from. its a matter of growing up and maturing, and understanding that some things, while inopportune, serve as investments for a larger group, which leads to the largest problem I have with the mindset of conservatism in general.
~Conservatism is an inherently self centered political philosophy. It advocates reducing the effectiveness of gov't, and increasing the dependance of people upon a corporately controlled monetary system. If one is independently wealthy, this is not a large problem, the resources are there at their disposal; but the vast majority of americans are not in a position to adequately survive in such an environment. It favors a principal that in actuality allows those with capital to gain more capital in an exponential manner, while those without have virtually no chance of expanding; not to mention that capital itself is by definition a finite commodity, therefore with the increase on the higher end (ie the rich getting richer) it reduces the available capital for those who are on the lower end.
~ The conservative movement in general is anti-humanist, anti-equality, and all around irresponsible. People should not be voting for what makes the best sense for them, but what makes the best sense for americans in general. if you are rich, you shouldn't be voting for what makes you richer, but for what will help others maintain a better quality of life. that is the immaturity that I find in the agenda of conservatism and the american populace as a whole. That coupled with the staggering lack of knowledge on fiscal issues makes the 'Tea Party' a silly movement at best, and a threat to the American Dream at worst.

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