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I imagine a lot of people here get drunk occasionally, and sometimes use drugs. As a person who has recently given up drinking (not an alcoholic or anything, just want to give it up for several reasons), I am beginning to see Religion as a self-imposed form of delusion, but also see being drunk, buzzed, or high as the same thing. Question is, can you be a "bright" and still be a "drunk" even an occasional one ? Not that we cant fall off the wagon every once in a while, but to be an advocate for occasional drunkenness or getting high seems to be at odds with being rational. Thoughts?

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I must clarify that when I use the word drunk, in this thread, it was in the sense of alcoholic, not drunk at that very moment... My chem teacher WAY back in high school was an alcoholic and drank ALL day long, but I never saw him drunk per se (as you describe them certainly not) while giving classes.

My experience of a violent and dominating and authoritarian father was frustrating even more, cuz he never drank, so I could not blame that, I had to simply blame it all on his actual personality, not much room for forgiveness there. As someone else mentioned here, disagreeable behaviour will be exhibited whether or not someone's drunk. Being drunk just brings it out a little more.
Hmm...have you considered that the clever and creative drunks you have known in your life may have been clever and creative to start with and the drinking is completely unrelated to that? I'd be interested to see a study outlining how drinking makes a previously average person suddenly clever and creative. It can make a quiet person more confident to express their ideas, is that what you mean?
I do think people with creative genius have 'issues' and often feel disconnected and/or ostracised in society. Low level inebriation seems to keep them going. IME the types of personalities who have a penchant for creating also have the penchant for drinking. A major component of the creative process is withdrawing yourself from the tedium of work-sleep-eat. By definition, artists are somewhat removed from the daily toil.

I am of the school of thought that art without critical thinking is just crafting.
I'm sorry your father was violent, dominating and authoritarian, I can't imagine what it would have been like to grow up with him. I can also see where some good escape drugs would have been very welcome to young TNT666, and that's fair enough. I suspect it's a good thing your father didn't drink though as a man like that is not enhanced by alcohol. With alcohol he might have crippled you.

My parents were very different. Both academics and, I've discovered in my adulthood, interesting people. When I was growing up though they drank a lot more heavily than they do now. They drank a bottle or two of wine every night between them, enough to get "nicely drunk". They never got angry or violent, they weren't that kind of people....for which I'm grateful of course. They were, however, still useless parents when they were drinking...which was every evening from about 7.30pm. There was no stimulating conversation. There was a pair of boring drinkers in the livingroom. They worked hard during the day and they deserved their fun in the evening, I know that intellectually, but as a child and adolescent it would have been good to have been able to have an intelligent conversation with my parents occasionally of an evening. I know the bleary look to an earnestly asked question, I know the frustration of having a parent not remember what they had said was ok or not ok the night before, and them changing their rulings. I know that salt helps get spilled red wine out of the carpet or you can move the furniture to cover it.

As I say, I know I got off lightly. I wasn't abused or hurt or controlled and I'm grateful for that. I do know, however, that I got a very diluted version of my parents when I needed them to be sharp. I know that their students and workmates got the best of them, they got the sharp end of my parents intellect and consideration. My brother and I got the dregs. It's probably a reason why I'm not a huge fan of daily drinking. Then I worked in Drug & Alcohol and that just sealed it! :-)
Boy, what I would have given for a "diluted" version of both my parents! :)

I've never 'imbibed' or 'partaken' in any mind altering products on a daily basis. Some weeks I imbibe several times but other weeks not at all. Frankly my limitation to drinking is money. I am the opposite of a cheap drunk. As for partaking in illegal substances, at age 43, I can still remember almost every time that occurred. They were intensely fun and way too rare.

A "young TNT666" as you said might have benefited from drugs, but my upbringing was so extremely straight that I barely even considered them. I only started after age 23-24 (which my mom needed reminding of the day she accused ME of influencing my younger siblings to partake, they partook before I !!). Which probably has a lot to do with my very moderate partaking. I've seen recent studies that showed the earlier you start, the more likely you are to become a heavy user. But it was all made easy for me as both my parents smoked 3 packs of cigs a day and it made my dislike all forms of smoking intensely.

As you feel for drunks, I feel for smokers. My angle is that a drinker does not forcefully pour a drink down your throat, whereas smokers force you to smoke (less nowadays with legislation, but still). After my first 17 years of life with bronchitis 6 months/year, I detest cigarettes with a passion.
17 years of coughing your guts out when you're young and don't even smoke? Yep, that's enough to set up a good solid lifelong hatred for smoking. My father smoked cigars when I was young but he gave up at some point. Impressive that he did, in hindsight.

I know what you mean by opposite of a cheap drunk. My husband only gets drunk about twice a year but it's usually on high end scotch. :-)
yuck! Scotch, gives me goosebumps! I stick to vodka and heaps of soda water! I need all the hydration I can get, and the least calories possible :)

My mum, even tho she mostly calls herself atheist, on good days, still is "against" drinking and drugs (legal and illegal) and abortion, and meat, and behaving badly, and driving fast, and casual sex, and ok, I'll stop... yeah, as long as we're not in the same room we get along ok. {:O)

For an atheist she's always been pretty religious ???

I quit drinking once in my late 20s, my bf and I went dry for 6 months, neither of us were daily drinkers, but still partied pretty hard. He lost 40 pounds in those months, I put on 20. For me drinking equals dancing... hard. No drink=no dance and that was bad for my physique!

I think it's fair to say there are personal life experiences affecting all our opinions. Even those who say they are perfectly objective ;)
LL: They aren't boring when they get mad and tell you they are going off to get their gun and they will be back...

Your a jihadi aren't you ? You'd make a great preacher. Howling about drunks instead of sodomites. It's not our fault OK ? Get over yourself.
I've said before, I'm not going to bother reading or replying to the content of anything you write Felch, in any group I should add. Ignoring you is a life choice I'm happy with. I wont bother telling you this again either.

John, just for that, I'm not replying to you for the next five minutes. You have been warned!!!1111!!
I didn't read his post or reply to the content, I replied to him. Learn to read, John.


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