Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Gila Guerilla on July 12, 2010 at 9:31pm

Atheism does not make a person better. I am not necessarily a better person than a theist, because I am an atheist. Likewise, a theist is not necessarily a better person than I am, simply because they believe in a god. In the first place, how do you define "better person?"

The only thing atheists are guaranteed to have in common is that they don't believe the existence of a god. Some atheists may be friendly, some irascible. Some atheists may be social, some isolated. Some atheists may do works of charity, some may be selfish.

Another thing which I might expect atheists to have in common, is that we find no basis in atheism, for how a person ought to be. Certainly, since the atheist does not believe in any god, then we must surely also agree that people who do believe in "God" are mistaken.

Just Jay: {Atheism itself is not a religion, but a philosophy that is entirely based on evidence.}

I'd say that atheism is a way of thinking, in which people derive philosophies, relying on evidence and reasoning. I make it my mission, to know what the reasons and evidence given by theists for their beliefs are, and to have counters for them.

Theists seem to have a malleable definition of what their god happens to be - altered to try and keep it as sensible as they can in the light of contradictory evidence. There are many arguments to show that all of the variations of gods, which have been deemed worthy of consideration by both sides, are in fact not logical, or are incoherent or are impossible.

That is why theist must keep recasting their ideas about what god is. When they realise that version 2010.7 of god is shown to be wrong, they must remodel their conception into version 2010.71 or whatever. I take that as evidence that god is not real, but made up by them.

So I don't think that I'm a better person because I'm atheist. In many ways, I am probably worse than some other people, depending on how you define what "better" is, among people. What I do hold to be precious is the TRUTH, and that would include the existence of a god, if it were true, but so far, I find it not to be.

Just Jay {Atheism is not a religion. Atheism rejects the idea of all religion.}

This is quite right. Atheism has no gods, no rites and no dogma. We reject religion, (for which a god would be required). It has been expressed thus:-

Atheism is no more a religion, than not collecting stamps counts as a hobby.
Atheism is no more a religion, than baldness counts as a hair colour.

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Permalink Reply by Andrey on July 12, 2010 at 10:01pm

Very solid points my friend, it just opened a new level of thought for me.

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Permalink Reply by Matt VDB on July 13, 2010 at 7:51am

Her grandfather needs to get his definitions straight. If he has spent his life studying philosophy, then he should realise that agnosticism and atheism are not incompatible with each other: they can co-exist quite happily and in fact, atheism can be an extension of agnosticism.

If the grandfather really thinks that rejecting religious claims requires your own religion, then he's an idiot. But more than likely, he's simply ignorant about the precise definitions. In fact, agnosticism in a philosophical sense is much more a faith position than atheism is.

Facebook is not a good place for long and detailed discussions though.

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Permalink Reply by R. Ryan Nelson on July 13, 2010 at 1:06pm

Atheism is a religion, we've no dogma other than acceptance of reality over perception. Our sacred texts are written in provable scientific theories, and mathematical certainties. Our mythology is the collected fictions of mankind, which passes on the moral and ethical lessons of history and the individual artists that create them. Other religions limit themselves to a few authors and ideas, and adhere to them rigidly.

Any good Atheist should know that there is a chance that your belief in human sciences may be completely off and the great turtle is indeed out there sneezing the universe into existence. But remember its not hubris to tell the person who believes the sky is made of turtles that they are wrong, because they are wrong and your belief in the atomic structure is not.

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Permalink Reply by Gila Guerilla on July 14, 2010 at 10:08pm

Religion . . . a definition :-

http://www.wordwebonline.com/search.pl?w=religion

Noun: religion ri'li-jun

1. A strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny
"he lost his religion but not his morality";
- faith, religious belief, belief

2. An institution to express belief in a divine power
"he was raised in the Baptist religion";
- faith, organized religion, organised religion [Brit]

Atheism does not meet the requirements of a religion, (see above). Nothing is worshipped, nothing is praised, nothing is required - except an inability to accept that some supernatural god exists. After that its open slather.

R. Ryan Nelson {Our sacred texts are written in provable scientific theories}

Science does not prove theories. Science fails to disprove them. It is in the nature of ethical science, to test theories in such a way that they might be disproved. If disprooof does not occur, the theories still stand - as tentative descriptions of how the universe operates. Nothing in science is sacred, but the scientific method has been designed to make our observations about the universe as valid as we possibly can.

The evidence we have does not support a sky of turtles, and the evidence so far supports a description of the universe in terms of atoms and energy and mass and so on and so forth. All of what we know comes via perception. What science does is to follow methodologies where perceptions are compared with those of other people, then tested including by the use of instruments, and recorded rigorously, so that claims for reality can be checked repeatedly and with replicability, by anyone, and shown to be the same for all people who try it.

There is no other source but our perceptions. Claims for god and the supernatural are perceptions, derived from the brains of individuals and groups of individuals. So too, our knowledge as reported in science is derived from perceptions. We attempt to perceive what exists independent of our minds, (unless we are studying the mind), then we propose, we test, we share, we allow others to try it too. We use logic, and then we conclude on an ongoing, tentative basis.

To hark back to the OP, in my mind, that does not make me better than theists; yet I still think they are mistaken, because there is good reason to think that way - reasons based on the scientific way of viewing the world - ie. where people's perceptions are compared and tested by repetition, and recorded rigorously, so that any claims for reality can be tested repeatedly and with replicability, by anyone.

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Permalink Reply by Dave Rogers on July 13, 2010 at 1:58pm

Atheism is the lack of belief in any god or gods. Period.
Agnosticism is the lack of knowledge of any god or gods. Period.

Neither have anything to do with religion, which is a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs. (from Dictionary.com)

The lack or absence of any belief or knowledge does not suddenly constitute a "set of beliefs".

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Permalink Reply by Daniel on July 14, 2010 at 10:55pm

Religion: Social systems whose participants avow belief in a supernatural agent or agents whose approval is to be sought.

By my (stolen) definition, uh nope not a religion.

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Permalink Reply by Terry McCoy on July 16, 2010 at 3:49pm

I have had this discussion as well. Atheism (a) no / without (theism) religion. It usually comes down to the other parties lack of understanding on what atheism is. I for one was on the other side of that fence at one point in my life.

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Permalink Reply by Michael on July 17, 2010 at 10:38am

It for sure fails to fall under religion, but you could make a religion based around atheism. But that doesn't make it a religion.

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Permalink Reply by Johannes S. on July 17, 2010 at 12:47pm

Atheism is neither a religion, a philosophy or anything other than a rejection of a claim.


The claim is "God exists." Atheism is the rejection of that claim.

Claiming atheism is a religion is like claiming pedestrianism is a car brand.

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Permalink Reply by Apollo the judge on July 17, 2010 at 1:24pm

Religion religion that word is everywhere.Just to add to some of the other comments posted before.Atheism a religion very unlikely cuz as an Atheist or a freethinker etc,I worship no one I can admire a fellow atheist work just as the next man,but u don't see me or other atheist blowing ourselves up in the name of darwin,Galileo,etc. I think u r missing the point for what I gather and correct me if I'm wrong but but we don't become atheist to save ourselves we do it because we feel there is a better way to become a better human being.By trying to assimilate a this revolution to a deaf,dumb, and blind dogma not only do u offend but ur definition of the word is totally wrong.Hit the books kids it pays.

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Permalink Reply by Meddlesome on July 18, 2010 at 11:26am

Attacking hte age of the debater not the topic itself is a form of Ad Hominem debating. If people resort to this it is usually because tyhey cannot answer your points.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

M.

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