http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/stossel/blog/2012/12/13/science-v...

no idea how interesting this will be.  John Stossell is the host, and he's an admitted but regretful Atheist.  anyway, thought i'd point it out for those who might want to watch. 

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Once again it ends in a draw (it seems) with both sides refusing to give to the other.  It's funny from OUR side though because it's easy to see the delusion of their side of the argument.  I think the non-theist did a fine job of stating the case. -That would be a win and not a draw.

I always get the impression of the WALL that exist between the 2 sides when seeing the arguments like this.  Where on one side is “fear that we will each be annihilated”, “hope that an afterlife exists”, “faith that the story is true”,  and the other is “our observation has been extended and disagrees with the creation stories”, “evidence directly contradicts the story”, “apparent is the truth that religion is false”.  That barrier is difficult to cross.

Mr. Bill Nye the Science Guy did hit upon the philosophy I'm writing about, Orderism.  He hinted that the truly amazing thing is that we exist at all.  It is the self-organizing property of the universe that has finally assembled us.  If self-organization did not exist, we would not exist.   Mr. Nye even took it one step further and said that life may be the Universe trying to become aware of itself. 

see Chaos by James Gleick and Sync by Steven Strogatz.  Some of these scientist have began to call themselves "believers" -talking about the self-organizing principle.

Life may be the Universe trying to become aware of itself, it can't be proven, but it is a great thought, and one of the pillars of Orderism.

Big surprise.  One side cites evidence, observation and objective explanations for phenomena.  The other goes with appeals to emotion and hasn't enough substance behind their assertions to fill a thimble.  Objective and rational on one side; subjective and irrational on the other.  The two might as well have been speaking two different languages.

A debate between fact and fantasy can never be fruitful. I always find consolation in my own thought that eventually fact will survive and fantasy will die a natural death.

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