The original thread is gone. That would be my bad.

Here's what happened, told in my usual verbose parenthetical style. If you just want to get on with it, skip past the italics.

I originally registered for Atheist Nexus last Sunday after listening to a Chariots of Iron podcast where AN was mentioned, while on a bus from Wilmington NC to Washington DC following the Christmas holiday. Since I was using my Motorola Droid (which is cooler than shit, by the way) I actually registered on the bus using this hand-held computer, browser and Twittering system with GPS cabability with which, I'm told, you can also make phone calls with.

I have two Gmail accounts, one using my given name which syncs directly with Google Calendar and Google Docs and I use mostly for work, family and my capacity as director of the National Association of Hen Teasers (I can get a chicken from head-under-wing asleep to apoplectic in 30 seconds, but anyway...) and the other is associated with my site and the nom de guerre "Mykeru" (which is a story in itself). Being too lazy to switch accounts, I registered using the email for my given name and thought that I could fill in the pseudonym later. Which I did. What I didn't realize was that the underlying architecture of Atheist Nexus was a tool of Satan and used my initial registration to create a URL using my given name.

Now, keep in mind that I'm an atheist, a recovered alcoholic and an incorrigible asshole who tends to overshare anyway, so although I can't keep everything separate, I try not to make things easy for fuck nozzles who use Google as the groundwork for being complete assholes. Seriously, once I had right-wing nutbags get my name from the domain information on my site, when it was poorly protected by RCN and cause all sorts of mischief. I since changed from HTML to WordPress and moved the whole operation to Laughing Squid, who not only protect anonymity better, but just love a good bogus DMCA notice that they can chew up and spit back into some lawyers face.

Plus, and this is important, by using the Mykeru brand name, I can be even more of a pain in the ass than I already am.

I'm about to reboot my site and I would like to have the ability to link to my page on AN without giving the whole game away. I tried to change the URL in the settings, no good. I changed the email, but still the URL held my name. I sent a couple "issue" reports to AN, but no response.

I was spending more time trying to deal with this dumb quirk "through channels" than it really deserved in terms of redoing my profile. So before I added too much content I decided to just delete my registration and re-register making sure that the mark of quality that is "Mykeru" was used. I figured I would have to redo my profile, add my picture again and make friends all over again.
I didn't. Miraculously, when the re-register was approved, the page came back with all settings, links and what have you intact.

However, and I didn't expect this: The fucking thread "Religion vs. Spirituality" was gone. Just gone. I thought maybe, if anything, my remarks might disappear, making it sort of one-sided, but the entire thing was gone.

So, for everyone who contributed to that thread, offered their thoughts and opinions, whether they were really stupid or not, I apologize profusely. Although I don't have a problem with my writing in that thread being deleted, there is no way that I intended the same for everyone else who contributed.

I fully accept whatever punishment is coming to me, especially if you are anything from a 20-something girl to a cougar in the metro Washington DC area with an extensive latex wardrobe and really like horned guys with creepy lemur eyes.


So, where were we? The thread began relating religion to spirituality and degenerated into an exercise in lexicography and Howard's fuck-all worthless opinion.

So, taking it from there:

1. Does the term "spiritual" necessarily involve the supernatural? I claim it does and people who use it in any other way are just too lazy to use a dictionary. Is using the term for the non-supernatural just sloppy language? Is using it aiding and abetting the religious by at the very least seeming to be fellow travellers?

2. Can one be an atheist and not be a skeptic towards the supernatural? This is the reverse of the case I hear reported at the last The Amazing Meeting (TAM) where Matt Dillahunty of The Atheist Experience recounts that the "skeptics" in attendance were told to lay off those skeptics who were also theists. I can't disagree more with that, and think those kid gloves represents another example of religion getting a pass. But is the reverse true: Can one be a critical atheist, whose lack of belief is derived from rational grounds and not also be a skeptic when it comes to the "spiritual"?

3. Is Atheist Nexus' underlying architecture a tool of Satan?

Tags: boners, religion, spirituality

Views: 207

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Is it really necessary to have one narrow definition of any word? Atheist? Spiritual? Lots of meanings. I don't want to see multiple sects of atheists out there arguing with each other over terms. Starts to sound like dogma. (Oops, not you Dog-Mamma.)
I'd agree with Mykeru's original comments as far as my own beliefs go, but I wouldn't want to tell the others that they can't join the club.

I think perhaps a lot of recently converted atheists lost their faith, as in "how can there be a loving creator god with all the suffering in the world" and so they just decide to stop believing. They haven't gotten to the part yet about learning all the science of reality and totally rejecting all supernaturalism. They cling to some hope that there is something more -- what... higher consciousness or something... out there. I don't want to tell those people to go away and don't come back until you grow up. They are welcome here.
Good point Tom. I would agree with you on that. However...truth is truth. If I hear someone talking about the supernatural, spiritual or religious, I feel obligated to educate them on why the nonexistent (while appearing to just be invisible) is actually just nonexistent. I'd feel obligated to let them know that they don't have to cling to anything nonexistent to have a full and meaningful life. Don't go away...stay and learn from others. That's why I'm here anyway. Since I read the first thread I saw 15 different definitions for the word “spiritual”, which was educational, since I always thought there was only one universally excepted definition.
Right on, Tom..

As for the wankers, this "intellectual" posturing and insulting everyone who uses a word you don't like is just silly.. It doesn't exactly lend strength to your "argument" either.. kinda shows a bit of desperation to prove something, and an assumptive bias which hamstrings the whole thing. Anxious much? Sheesh.
I don't think the debate was about using a word one guy didn't like. They banter was about whether it makes sense to use a defined word wrongly to describe something. Especially when that defined word involves the supernatural (nonexistent). Doesn't seem desperate to me (amusing as all hell) but not a desperate attempt to prove anything- other than the definition of a word should be used as defined. You gotta admit...it was pretty funny. People...can't we....can't we all just get along? Sure...just don't tase me bro!
Right - to both Giselle and Skeptic. But Skeptic, I would not feel obligated to educate someone on what is real versus nonexistent, if they don't want to hear it. People like Giselle - and my wife - still feel there is something out there and it makes them feel good. If we push too hard with our scientific skeptical attitudes it just pisses them off, right Giselle?

On the other hand, if they ask, then by all means give them a science lesson. I wish I was Bill Nye the Science Guy - I'd love to teach kids about critical thinking and what science really means when it says "there is no evidence..."

Personally my wife doesn’t want to hear about it. She wants to believe in reincarnation – fine. However, Skeptic, I do admire what you do (Read your Mom’s story – wonderful!)
On the other hand, Giselle, I do admire people like Mykeru - and PZ Myers for example. They are the ones pushing the envelope and it needs to be pushed. They are not anxious - just enthusiastic. This is a forum for them to strut their stuff, say their piece. You stepped into this den. So have some fun and open up.
Tom, I agree...everyone has to be at their own place with it...I too envy the more vociferous folks!
I don't feel pissed off.. more bemused at the chest-thumping and mental masturbation going on in here, along with this troll-like trash talkin.

What I find difficult to take seriously or hold much respect for is the ego games, dissing others who feel or believe differently.. for me, that kind of behaviour automatically pokes holes in their positions. If someone is really secure in what they feel or believe, why judge (or piss all over) others who see something different? It's pretty much replicated colonialism.. and look where that got us.

What's also funny to me is this sweaty push for a mutually agreed-upon reality and interpretation of language. Good luck..! This is great: everyone is so absolutely convinced of being right. Everybody's got everybody else's reality figured out somehow.. hmm.. seems suspect to me.

Gawd help me, I've landed in a den of fundamentalist atheists!
I think it is funny you jump insults with out atleast basing a position in wich you stand upon or something to back it up some of us are dabating for debate sake so yea it is posturing and chest thumping that my veiw is right but we are atleast giving reason for why we feel that way, that is the nature of a debate is to express your criterea on what makes your world tick differently then the person with an adverse veiw to your own. The only way to understand why some one uses a word in away that makes no sense to you is either to assume they are ignorant or ask them why and give them your reason why that is confusing and doesnt work so well for you. thats all i have done is say it seem to be in bad taste to redefine words wether it is Atheist as just flat out "rational Skeptic" or to redefine Spiritual as a non supernatural thing when people are still using it for those purposes that are being exclude by these definition no one has anyone else realities figured out it is making a point on why your reality should come into check with the populace when it comes to linguistic terms or else what you say maybe taken out of context. and once again what ever i said here would probably take a days worth of editing to make it make sense in most peoples realities but the closer in line we get realities together the better sense i can make out of them and sooner or later maybe i can get enlgish to make sense for me lol
"I think it is funny you jump insults with out atleast basing a position in wich you stand upon or something to back it up some of us are dabating for debate sake so yea it is posturing and chest thumping that my veiw is right but we are atleast giving reason for why we feel that way, that is the nature of a debate is to express your criterea on what makes your world tick differently then the person with an adverse veiw to your own."


I must disagree and applaud Giselle for her taking a brave stand against having any opinion at all.
"What I find difficult to take seriously or hold much respect for is the ego games, dissing others who feel or believe differently.. for me, that kind of behaviour automatically pokes holes in their positions."

What I have no respect for is people who can't be bothered to pay attention to what other people are actually arguing, and riff off their own intellectually lazy interpretation.

"What's also funny to me is this sweaty push for a mutually agreed-upon reality and interpretation of language."

You've better dust off and nuke the Oxford English Dictionary from orbit, it's the only way to be sure to have a world of rainbows and puppies where everyone gets to make up their own definitions of words.

"everyone is so absolutely convinced of being right. "

Except you, right?

"Gawd help me, I've landed in a den of fundamentalist atheists!"

Heh, "fundamentalist atheists"! Haw, no matter how many times I hear that it's just as fresh and clever as the first time.

No, seriously: Your aunt's garden called: They want their troll back.

RSS

Support Atheist Nexus

Donate Today

Donate

 

Help Nexus When You Buy From Amazon

Amazon

MJ

© 2014   Atheist Nexus. All rights reserved. Admin: Richard Haynes.

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service