John, Stalin did not kill in the name of atheism. Those whom he killed were also atheists, they were his competitors for power. This is a lie deliberately spread by believers in the name of atheism. If he had to kill in the name of atheism, he woul have killed many priests.
John, in the U.S., plenty of people are in prisons today who murdered and most of them are Christians. You CAN murder can have Belief.
I agree with Loren on this completely.
The "No true Scotsman" argument has no traction because Hitler claimed to be acting in the name of Christianity. According to Hitler, the jews had blood on their hands and deserved to be eliminated. True, it was a version others would not endorse but that does not mean he wasn't acting in a way consistent with how he interpreted Christianity. He quoted the bible in speeches when he justified his campaign against the jews. I would say he was twisting it pretty good to achieve his ambitions but it is unambiguous as to where he received his inspiration.
Stalin may have been an atheist. I won't argue that point. What I do dispute is that his murderous existence was inspired by atheism. He did conduct a campaign to eliminate religion from the USSR and Atheism was a tool, but not the primary goal. I personally believe the paranoid, thug would've made Jainism the state religion if it would have somehow provided him with the means to eliminate his political opponents. He was a power mad freak who's intent was to be emperor for life.
In short, we atheist don't have a manifesto or list of political goals. We're the cats that can't be herded. We simply don't believe there is a god.
Worthy of note, Greg: the Russian Orthodox Church was a competitor for control of the Russian people. Ol' Josef couldn't have that, so naturally he dropped the hammer (and maybe the sickle, too!) on the church ... except when he strong-armed their cooperation when it was convenient and/or expeditious!
Thanks for that Loren. I have not read all that much regarding Russian history. The Gulag Archipelago paints an interesting picture but only goes so far in explaining the cause of that much social/economic/political dysfunction.
I can understand Stalin putting the religious institutions on the rack if there were some payoff. I'd be interested in knowing the details of why he didn't go all out in eliminating the church. It was probably as you say, convenient to have their support at times.
I agree with Greg.
GENESIS 19:6- In Sodom, Lot’s home was assaulted by a homosexual mob seeking to have relations with two angels. Lot volunteered his virgin daughters to the crowd, saying "you can do what you like with them" as long as the guests are left alone. After offering his children to be raped, Lot was then appointed by God as worthy of rescue from Sodom’s destruction.
Wrong on both accounts. John. You don't know history very well.
Get your head out of your Bible and really do some proper studying.
Hitler was a Catholic, through and through, right to the very end.
Only he believed that he was God's chosen one, because he was spared by the bunker explosion that was aimed at himself. His survival of that gave him greater determination to continue his murderous mission, as God's chosen leader for his people.
Stalin was actually a Marxist, but still had agnostic concepts as he changed his mind about Atheism near the end of his life and asked for mercy. No self respecting Atheist would ever do that.
Hitler was not an atheist. H e was a Christian. Atheism has never killed anyone for the sake of atheism. Politicized atheism is not true atheism. How many Christians have been killed by atheists?
Hitler was not an atheist. Stalin was a madman-like Hitler. You can't use these individuals as some kind of "standard atheist". These individuals were pathological and opportunistic. They used nationalism, not religion or lack thereof, to control the masses.
Atheism doesn't kill. It is simply a lack of belief in deities. That does not kill, except ancient myths, which deserve to die.
"...texts from the source we call Holy Scripture have been used in the past to
defend the divine right of kings;
oppose the Magna Carta;
assert that the Sun does indeed rotate around the Earth;
justify slavery, segregation and apartheid;
keep women from being educated, entering the professions, voting or being ordained;
persecute and kill Jews;
condemn other world religions;
continue the oppression and rejection of gay and lesbian people."
~ Bishop John Shelby Spong 1 (He left out transgender individuals)
let's include the group GLBTQ stands for Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender, and Questioning.
Jim Huber's pamphlet focusing on selected bits of "recent" history is worth quoting in full:
Learn from History!
In the late 1700s some people wanted democratic rule. Conservative elements of the church pointed to the Bible and said it proved that the king ruled by God's will.
In the mid 1800s some people wanted to end slavery. Conservative elements of the church pointed to the Bible and said it proved that God approved of slavery.
In the early 1900s some people wanted to give women the vote. Conservative elements of the church pointed to the Bible and said it proved that God made women inferior to men.
In the mid 1900s some people wanted to end segregation. Conservative elements of the church pointed to the Bible and said it proved God wanted to keep the races separate.
When you look back at how your parents and grandparents dealt with these things, are you ashamed or proud?
Now some people want to allow gay marriage. Conservative elements of the church are pointing to the Bible and saying it proves God hates homosexuality.
When your children and grandchildren look back at how you deal with this, will they be ashamed or proud?
Learn from History!
(He also has a PDF pamphlet of this, and publishes under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike copyleft.)