Don't let this happen. Sign the petition and let as many people as you can know:

http://pol.moveon.org/smithbill/splash.html?rc=homepage_splash

Daily show take on the subject:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-february-2-2011/rape-victim-a...

 

Rape is already one of the least prosecuted crimes- less than 2% of CONVICTED rapists serve time even though most women (1 out of 3 women reports a rape in her lifetime- most scientists believe 70% of rapes aren't reported so just imagine how many women are really being raped and how often and ugh how many men must be rapists.)

 

This is not because we cannot house rapists in prison this is because we do not believe rape is a serious crime as a culture. 8 out 10 black men are in prison for personal marijuana use (even though white males are significantly more likely to use marijuana 8-1 when compared to black men they are not imprisoned for the same crime at comparable rates.)

 

About six month ago a male Californian judge said on HLN we should "legalize rape because it's not a real crime and if we ever want any babies born rape is necessary." I can't believe American is becoming such a misogynist country- things have been getting worse for women over the last 10 years. I truly thought when I was a child I would see legal equality for women in my lifetime now I doubt it will happen in the next 100 years. By legal equality I mean the ERA- full human rights for women- the same ones people of color enjoy. 

 

To not consider rape at least the second worse crime is just a way of creating a way of terrorizing women so they can be controlled and kept in a second class status. Rape isn't in the 10 commandments so it doesn't count. Rape is the only crime where we blame the victim. No one ever asks why a white man wore that expensive suit when he got mugged- no one suggests he was asking for it. In many ways rape is worse than murder (as a behavior) because you can accidentally knock someone over and they could die hitting their head wrong but you can't accidentally have your penis fall into someone vagina. I guess in a strange way that judge was sort of right. How can we ever have consensual sex if the person straight women are having sex with has more legal and human rights? Isn't that then the same as statutory rape? Funny that only 50% of American women will ever experience an orgasm... it couldn't possibly be because most women are being attacked in the vagina!? No it's that women are less sexual than men- um ya. Sorry to digress but the subjects are sort of a mobious strip.

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If you follow the link, you'll see the sources used are USA yearly stats from 1999, 2000, 2005. Myself, any time I use numbers not pertaining to USA, I specify, since a majority of users here are from the USA.

 

Rape is a very difficult subject to completely encompass within a set of perfect numbers.

 

IMO the objective of a feminist group here is not to argue on small statistical differences and mistakes, but to look at general trends. People using different stats from different agencies and different years and different countries and different definitions will of course see variability in results. Just like the AGW debate... Scientists of course argue on technicalities and details, but a vast majority of earth science academics agree on the general trends, those scientists (not all but most) looking for loopholes that contradict the consensus are denialists, mouthpieces/shoeple for the oil industry. Trend-wise, these numbers agree with asharu's. The role of a feminist group is certainly not waste time arguing with people who disagree with feminist issues to begin with... I'd like to think here we can focus on discussing solutions, not arguing about basics.

Of three references cited:
1. U.S. Department of Justice.2005 National Crime Victimization Study. 2005.
The U.S. Department of Justice web site has no such document.  It does men a National Crime Victimization SURVEY, but does not provide the contents or results of the survey.  This citation cannot be verified.

2. Bureau of Justice Statistics. Rape and Sexual Assault: Reporting to Police and Medical Attention. 1992-2000.
This appears to be the source of the statistic the only 39% of rapes are reported to police.  This seems to based soley on self-reporting by the respondents.  Apparently, no attempt was made to verify their claims.  They were simply taken at their word, though it is well-known that women do lie about rape and sexual assault.  Furthermore, the study in question aggregated data for both rape and sexual assault, including attempted assaults, while the silly jpg you provided mistakenly assumes that all of these were actual, complete rapes.  It's claim that "So even in the 39% of attacks that are reported to the police there is only a 16.3% chance the rapist will end up in prison" is thus demonstrably incorrect.  Not all of the attacks were rapes, not all of the attacks actually occurred (they were "attempted"), and the majority of the claims cannot be verified.

3. National Center for Policy Analysis. Crime and Punishment in America. 1999.
This appears to be the source of the claim that "If a rape is reported, there is a 50.8% chance of arrest."  I do not dispute this figure, since it confirms the studies I referenced previously showing that more than 40% of rape reports are false.  Your jpg link is further discredited by operating under the false assumption that all of the rapes reported actually occurred.

Please, in the future, have the courtesy to supply your own links to original references, as I have done for you.  If nothing else, it at least proves that you have actually looked at the references you cite.

P.S. Interesting that you state "Trend-wise, these numbers agree with asharu's.", when the references YOU cited state otherwise:
"The rates for rape and aggravated assault fell by 5 percent each"
"Rape has decreased 17 percent, as the probability of prison has increased 20 percent"
http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/st229.pdf
Further evidence that none of you bother to do any research before voicing your opinions.

OMG people learn to read! I got that off HLN on Jane Velez Mitchell's war on women segment. I said that over and over again. I pause the tv type EXACTLY what is shown on the screen and send it to my partner on a daily basis. You're just unwilling to value my source. Separating molestation in different calculations can yield different results no doubt. Only using the U.S. calculations is another way to skew info. You have no authority over me to demand I present my data how you enjoy it to be presented.  Males that believe everyone is a liar are males who believe in patriarchy because it is the ultimate lie- that males are the primary generative force. I'm sorry if I trust myself (and her) more than some random dude who claims to be in psychology but doesn't know basic things about autism or human respect.

The way I gather info works great for my PAINTINGS I do as an artist. The system he proposes is not as accurate because it hinges on a smaller definition of rape. I AM NOT A SCIENTIST. I have not heard one complaint from people who value the tenets of feminism only 2 dudes who have said such sexist stuff at times I have wanted to vomit (and I don't mean any of the stuff you guys said about me that's just gravy vomit). People I value have left because of your type of behavior, this is not a science magazine that you run. Your behavior is similar to high jacking a stranger's dinner in a restaurant and then telling them what they are allowed to discuss and what's the most valid way to do it. It's unbridled arrogance and arrogance and science can never exist together. I have read no where that you can only post here if you are a scientist. 

However you are not suppose to post here if you are a sexist which I have found many of your and Bruce's posts to not even be aware of basic feminist knowledge. I am not alone in this feeling I'm just one of the few females you haven't been able to threaten away with your heinous libel. This is not a science forum nor is it one to discuss grammar yet you abuse this site in that way. Notice he doesn't ever have to answer my questions like what feminist books has he read or what college does he attend- I'm the only one who is accountable. I'm the target. That's called the double standard. But I get it, not only do I need to meet your standard to post here but you don't have to follow the actual rules implied by this site. Maybe if some of the guys that came here ever bothered to contribute instead of copying off other people's papers and derailing we could actually have a discussion about sexism for the first time. But you don't want that, you wanna talk about how male things are like god, infallible. All that is ever said here is PROVE sexism exists. Well, I reject that and your 'more valid' google info.

No one has to use this forum to PROVE atheism exists using flawed creationist information gathering techniques so why do we again and again have to provide proof presented in ways that are sexist to begin with?! Martin Luther King would never have had a dream if some racist had said he could only be heard if he used the other 'King's english'. But then again Martin got a safe place where whites were not allowed to be heard because of their own evil segregation rules (black church) so his voice wasn't stifled by being forced to value racist systems (which 'proved' through data you guys would have valued as absolute truth back then that blacks were inferior- is that data you believe too? Cause the government did- you know Bruce's more 'valid' source- wait could a government that doesn't give its women the ERA possibly be um maybe sexist in the first place? nah not possible the U.S. government has never denied the rights of peoples... oh wait that's not true at all) and inform his ideas based on them. That is building a house on quicksand. I know this will wrongly be interpreted as me not supporting accuracy or that feminism doesn't but that's not at all what is happening. That is the limitation of your conception of reality. You promote a way of approaching data that is flawed to the core but you can't see it because you are brainwashed by the religion of Patriarchy.

Why do we need a sex registry if men are going away for life for rape? Anything less than that is a joke. Why does the gender is more responsible for rape also get sole right to define it as you both are doing currently? Why would you ever trust males to gather this data over that of people who very rarely commit this act? It's so illogical that I can only conclude it's calculated.

Women have not contributed in equal numbers to the creation of all these resources you call standards and until they do you are asserting that patriarchy is superior to female experience. Hence you have no right to be posting here. This is a place for exploration of what feminism is not what patriarchy is- we all know what that is and have spent most of our lives in school for it. When in school I respect the rules of that school. When on the feminist atheist site you do not get apply other standards than feminism. You can't replace this site's rules with your own.

The only reason you guys tear down 'arguments' (how about the screwed up idea that this can only be a place for debate or arguments- patriarchal sickness- pecking order and penis measuring are next aren't they?) is because you have absolutely nothing feminist to offer, basically you can't compete so you seek to replace our rules with yours. You argue grammar (imaginary and arbitrary rules), or the validity of sources (none of Bruce's sources are above sexism and therefore not valid at all and the way he chooses to do research is beyond biased) because you have no real ideas, no actual content and no ability for you to judge on your OWN what is real. You need someone white and male or someone dressed up that way on the inside to tell you how to think.

Same sad song patriarchal men have been singing for 8,000 years- you're only allowed to contribute to public life if you play the same game as men do and you can only play that game if you use half your brain instead of all of it together unified (feminism). What if you don't know the best way and because of your actions innocent people are hurt on a daily basis- oh wait that's how it actually is now. If you develop yourselves maybe you can compete and won't need to derail and mirco-manage to even the playing field for yourselves. Until male privilege is destroyed patriarchal men can't compete expect with the old 'God said so" routine which this whole thing is just a sexed up version of.

 

"I pause the tv type EXACTLY what is shown on the screen and send it to my partner on a daily basis. You're just unwilling to value my source."

Fantastic news!  Then there should be an accurate record of when the show aired.  Please do a text search of your messages and send me the date of the episode, and I will be satisfied.

Thanks!

Certainly! Of course that won't make you believe rape is real when you clearly have made up your mind that it doesn't exist except by standards defined by males. I have no idea how to do that and there appears to be no option like that on my phone but I will inform my partner so he can check his texts since they go back a lot further than mine. He's a video game designer so it should be no problem if it can actually be done. I transferred my phone when I upgraded but I think they are still somewhere? So you will have to wait on him and he has a WOW raid tonight. He thinks very poorly of you so it will take much convincing since he will say you are nothing but a sexist troll and don't deserve any attention.

Though it is still quite one-sided of you not to demand the same standard from yourself please answer each of the questions I requested you answer. You might not think they matter but I don't think what you value matters either. Please read derailing for dummies because you will be quizzed on it. Once you have actually read my posts and answered to MY FEMINIST STANDARD's satisfaction using only sources acceptable to feminists I will do the same for you using your sexist standards.

I'd also like a real source for your BS about 40% of rape being a lie. Only if sex has not occurred at all could we know 100% that rape did not happen so are you claiming 40% never had sex? That's the ONLY way what you're saying can be valid. Even if it's on tape it can be misconstrued- rapists use the 'writhing' of women as some sort of proof she enjoyed it when in reality it is her attempt to get away. They even argue away screams for help as form of elation. All you 'prove' with that figure is that NO WOMAN SHOULD TRUST THE POLICE- if it's true anyway. "The police" is not a valid data source and sounds quite ridiculous since cops are not doctors, don't have to go to college nor do they learn feminist theory and are also largely male- mostly male if I should be so bold to dare to use the controversial term "mostly". They are also more likely to commit domestic violence than civilians proportionately. I still don't see how you get to elect yourself as some sort of authority but clearly it's cause you hate women and want this forum to fail. Anyone with eyes can see that, you have provided so much 'proof.'

 

Of course I no longer believe the data I provided either clearly what other feminists have said about 100% of sex being rape when there is no ERA is closer to the truth than any vision of reality you have which is why you're freaking out. We can all see who you are and it drives you nuts. I'm trying to keep this a place where men don't get to intimidate women what's your excuse for caring so much what some random 'fe-male' (in my head you pronounce that just as a Ferengi would) you think is an idiot/liar says here unless you want what is considered rape to be a smaller definition. Your argument is 'prove feminism exists' just like a creationist says prove god doesn't exist.

The only way this forum can exist is if we don't need to answer people who don't have the right to post here- just as a creationist can't post neither should you since you are not interested in the topic of feminism. Just imagine if every time a physicist wanted to have an in depth conversation on string theory some creationist kept popping up saying but what about the world being created in 6 days? It is distracting and not the point of the forum. You are that creationist.

Fair enough.  I have asked you to supply support for one single statement that you made.  It is reasonable for you to request evidence on one statement that I made.

How about if I provide a source for my assertion that more than 1% of convicted rapists serve prison time?  Oh, wait!  I already did that in this post:
http://www.atheistnexus.org/xn/detail/2182797:Comment:1105947

OK.  Then how about I supply references and studies supporting my claim that the wage gap no longer exists?  Oh, wait!  I already did that in this post:
http://www.atheistnexus.org/xn/detail/2182797:Comment:1106181

Alright, lets choose another.  You seem to be most fixated on my statment that false rape report estimate "range from 5% (women's advocacy groups) to 40% (police statistics)".
First, I will confess that one of those figures was not accurate.  In fact, women's advocacy groups claim the even more rediculously low rate of 2%.

Edward Greer points out in "THE TRUTH BEHIND LEGAL DOMINANCE FEMINISM’S 'TWO PERCENT FALSE
RAPE CLAIM' FIGURE'":
"As far as can be ascertained, no study has ever been published which sets forth an evidentiary basis for the 'two percent false rape complaint' thesis."
http://ncfm.org/libraryfiles/Children/rape/greer.pdf
As much as Feminists love to repeat this little factoid, it has no more basis in truth than your claim about incarceration rate for rapists.

At the high end of the spectrum is a study performed by Eugene J. Kanin of Purdue University, which was a simple case study of a police agency in an average sized town.  This study found that 41% of rape allegations over 9 year period were officially declared false because the accuser admitted they had lied.
http://www.anandaanswers.com/pages/naaFalse.html
It is certainly reasonable to assume that not all the accusers owned up to their deception, and so the false accusation rate for the sample period was certainly even higher than that.  However, this case study is (rightly) criticised because the sample size was only 109 cases, so it is not appropriate to extrapolate this result across all segments of society.  Even so, it is valid to point out that there is some evidence for false accusation rates as high as 40%, while there is literally NO evidence for the Feminist claim of 2%.

Anecdotally, former Prosecutor Craig Silverman, who made a career out prosecuting accused rapists had this to say:
"However, during my time as a prosecutor who made case filing decisions, I was amazed to see all the false rape allegations that were made to the Denver Police Department. It was remarkable and surprising to me. You would have to see it to believe it.
Any honest veteran sex assault investigator will tell you that rape is one of the most falsely reported crimes that there is. A command officer in the Denver Police sex assaults unit recently told me he placed the false rape numbers at approximately 45 percent."
http://web.archive.org/web/20050404230831/http://www.thedenverchann...

 

Now it is your turn.  Where is your evidence for the 2% incarceration rate claim?  I think I have been MORE than patient enough, and more than obliging enough to your requests.

Asharu
It is disingenuous of you to write multiple rambling 1,500 word essays and then claim that your Autism hobbles your ability to query google.
Allow me to help: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=only+2%25+of+convicted+rapists+serve+time 

It is disingenuous of you to post a series of fabricated facts  and figures and then claim that as a professional artist you are not capable of dealing with facts and figures.  Next time, paint a picture or perform an interpretive dance instead.  If you are going to propagate false information on a public website, you can expect to be called to support it.

It is disingenuous of you to use science to support your opinions, and then claim that science is not to be trusted when it demonstrated that you are wrong.

It is disingenuous of you to claim that we should believe everything you say because you claim you are incapable of lying.

It is disingenuous of you to make unsubstantiated claims about my personal definition of rape, when I have not presented my views in any of these posts.  I simply asked whether you had any evidence for the facts you presented, that is all.  And the answer is that you don’t.

It is disingenuous of you to accuse me of violating unspecified forum rules, and then make a series of relentless ad-hominem attacks against me, which ARE prohibited by the forum rules.

 

And I'm still waiting for the evidence supporting your 2% figure.  Heck, I'd be satisfied if TNT666 could provide support for the 6% figure.  Both are clearly lies.

Autism doesn't specifically prevent me from anything nor am I saying it does it just means I interpret things differently than you. That it has literally taken me 7.5 hours to write 'ramblings' and that I haven't even gotten a chance to eat yet should inform you as to the fact that I am clearly not able to do this in 4 minutes which is what you quantified. Nor do I accept your evidence since it comes from sexism. Who said I can't google that's just your back handed way of mocking my condition. I don't think I said one single thing you claim I have. You just can't think abstractly and now want to punish people who can see that.

You believe there is such a thing as 'true' authorities but the rest of us are adults. My facts are presented on cable news (CNN, HLN) it's not my fault you somehow can't follow that or won't. It is not my job to validate your info do that for yourself. I have given you each answer you asked multiple times it is you who won't answer my questions. Why don't you go argue that captain Kirk is the best Star Trek captain on the Next Generation website. You could easily troll and annoy a whole other group of people that don't want you posting there too. This unfortunately goes a long way to prove most men can't handle feminism because it makes your 'authorities' (your god) lies. Every one of your authorities was built on the oppression of others and the upholding of the western white male principle. I REJECT ALL DATA FROM THOSE SOURCES AS PROVEN FALSE. 

Your choice of words and terms here is proof positive on your stance against feminism, you don't even need to supply your stance. You broke the law when you libeled me and that is why you keep harping on some sort of magic info you have that there can be correct data on this topic at all. It's all just DISTRACTION. You'll be waiting for evidence your whole life because the only evidence you will belief is your own. We are not going to let you use this forum for your insults and misogyny. Go read the derailing for dummies at one time that was a guide line you had to read before posting.

asharu said: "That it has literally taken me 7.5 hours to write 'ramblings' and that I haven't even gotten a chance to eat yet should inform you as to the fact that I am clearly not able to do this in 4 minutes which is what you quantified."

Then you have wasted a lot of your time, because all I asked for was one thing.  The source for your statistic about only 2% of convicted rapists serving time.  Who came up with this statistic?  This is not a four hour request.  This is a five minute request.  One sentence will do.  Or better yet, just admit that what you said is false, and we'll let it go.

"Art therapy was my minor so I too have a degree in psychology as well so I know its history and it is highly anti-feminist- do you count this as rape cause I do: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/shrinkwrapped/201102/vibrators-..."

No.  I do not consider voluntary use of a vibrator to be rape.

Nobody does.  Except you.  You are the only one who considers a woman using a vibrator to be a victim of rape.

And that says SO much.

Yes, lovely period in history that was: [...] Others, less fortunate, were subjected to clitorectomy or lobotomy. [...]

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/love-doc/200907/moral-values-an...


hmmm, let's see now... place myself in a woman's shoes back then... I am being accused of pathological hysteria and given a choice: penetration, clitorectomy, or lobotomy... hmmm let me think, do I really have any choice in accepting penetration. Yes, that can be seen as rape. Back to present time: If a man holding a knife says: I penetrate you with this stick or I cut your {insert any useful appendage} off, which one do I chose? There are no two ways about it, the first option is rape, no matter if the woman 'chose' it.
Your assertions are absurd.  There is nothing to suggest in either of those articles that the women were being faced with the choice of "I penetrate you with this stick or I cut your {insert any useful appendage} off".  That is all in your head.
The implication of the article that asharu linked to is that masses of women were seeking sexual gratification from their doctors, and that the vibrator was invented because the doctors found this task exhausting.
But you seem to think that wealthy women visiting a professional man for the purposes of their own sexual gratification were being raped.  Truly, my heart goes out to all the unfortunate men who will be raped by professional women in the Nevada brothels today.

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