wow culty brainwash much!?
figures the cathlics are posting up there bannerwise...

so lame. such a waste. I thought the economy was hurting!?

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I'm sure you are a great father, but all you did in the beginning was to donate DNA.  Men can never give birth (so far).

You are SO wrong about it always being better to bring a life into the world.  You are so naive it's scary.  Guess what ?  YOU will never have to or get to decide on abortion.  It is a womans body and you can't MAKE her carry an embryo/fetus to term.  I don't like the idea of late-term abortions, but in the beginning a clump of cells has the ability to become a baby, but it isn't a baby yet.  I would NEVER presume to tell a woman she had to carry a baby. 

I'm done debating with you because I think your idea is absurd.  How about incest or rape?  Oh how precious...

You have hardly debated me to begin with.


That whole "it isnt a baby yet" argument is full of crap. Prove me wrong that if the pregnancy is viable and would have developed normally the only reason it isnt a "real" human being is by the intervention of the abortion.


Also if you read back my statement again I have never said I would advocate makign abortions illegal. I have always said that in the end it is the womans choice.


I would just hope that society would evolve to the point where abortions are seen as the very very very last option, not the first option. I work in the medical area and see young women whose only form of birth control is an abortion.


The whoel argument that a bunch of cells isnt human is a weak justification that I think in time will be recognised as such. When society reaches that point I think we will see the rate of abortions decrease massively.


You mention incest and rape. Yes that is a horrible horrible situation for the woman to be in. But why  should the child pay for it with their life.. they are innocent of the crime.


Good luck with things and I hope you dotn take any of what I say as a personal attack. i say what I say because they a beliefs I hold strongly and have yet to see a good argument to the contrary.






I think the moderator should kick you off the forum because someone with views like yours HAS to be a religious-nut and they're not allowed here. You are clearly hostile to women.  What if a young girl was raped and wanted an abortion?  NONE OF YOUR FRICKIN BUSINESS.  Unless it can live outside of a host (mothers body), it's the womans choice.  This IS a personal attack against you because I SERIOUSLY think you are a moron. 

Quit wanting to be a woman.  It seriously seems as if you have Uterine-envy!

Of course abortion should not be the first option, but when a woman decides to have one, none of your fu--ing business you ass. 

I will quit following this thread because seriously it is insane of me to let an idiot like you raise my blood pressure.  I feel sorry for your wife. 



fyi, killing a newborn is no different than killing a clump of cells. Neither qualifies as human. the separation is mostly argued on outside of body or someone wants an infant.


i honestly don't give a shit because i don't consider human life intrinsically more valuable than other kinds of life. and i eat cows, so what's killing a fetus, or even a baby?


I wish women would just man up and admit that they are okay with killing newborns and fetuses if it inconveniences them. I don't see why that is a problem.


The fact of the matter is that the evolutionary process doesn't give a fuck about your feelings, and that therefore it didn't bother to create a system with clear cut answers where no human has to lose their rights. Sacking the child for the mother is the obvious decision here, people need to stop being little babies, otherwise I can just put them down :P, and trying to make themselves feel better about taking away a person's chance at life.

The other day I came across someone comparing forced childbirth to rape. I had never thought of it that way but they are both physical traumas inflicted on someone against their will. Childbirth can be traumatic and has irreversible effects on the body.


Although I do think the "pro-life except for rape" is inconsistent, and people who think this are the ones who want to punish women for sex. With rape it "doesn't count" because she didn't willingly have sex. Then again some people think the woman must have provoked the rape.

. I had never thought of it that way but they are both physical traumas inflicted on someone against their will. Childbirth can be traumatic and has irreversible effects on the body./p>


And that is THE TRUTH!  BELIEVE me, I wanted my kids more than anything and I gave birth to them and my body could not have more stretch-marks, I got gall-stones and had my gallbladder removed, plus MUCH pain.  All worth it to me because I WANTED to have my kids.  In my wildest dreams I can't imagine the horror of making a woman/girl do that against her will.

The man I have been 'debating' with , in my opinion, could be a religious troll on these boards, or have an intense disrespect for women.  Again, just my opinion, but I have given birth and he never will.

1. Where have I shown disrespect for women? I have never suggested taking an legal rights from women. I have instead put a position forward to protect both males and females.

2. Where have I shown a religious leaning? Just because you dont agree with me doesnt mean my views are religiously based.

3. If anyone has shown any sexism it is you. Your argument is essentially your a male, you cant have an opinion on this subject.


Honestly I dont care whether you agree with me or not.I'd hope that by having a debate the subject can be taking past the simple "i'm an atheist therefore any position taken by the religious must be wrong" but in the end as you keep saying these are our own opinions.


That doesnt mean you can leave it at that though. If you get so upset by someone challenging your ideas it might be time to examine why that is so?


Good luck with things booklover.

First time I ever heard someone on this site call mother theresa a great mind!

Gee a woman devotes her life to looking after the poor and the sick and just because she is a Nun it means nothing right?

Einstein had some less than admirable traits too. He cheated on his wife with his cousin, who he later married. Yet I dont see you attackign his great mind.

You dont have to agree with everything soemone does to recognise their contribution to the world.

Life IS precious, including non-human life, and an overpopulation of humans harms non-human life as well as humans. I put quality of life ahead of quantity.

I found this website some time ago and though I haven't had much chance to fact check it the information seems correct. The article that seems most important is this one. 

The first reference to abortion is on page 5, so don't get discouraged until after that. Though I understand we are all atheists here more information is always nice. 


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