wow culty brainwash much!?
figures the cathlics are posting up there bannerwise...

so lame. such a waste. I thought the economy was hurting!?

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Well that's where we differ MB,  I didn't think of my miscarriages as 'children' yet, and I was the one carrying them, but everyone feels differently.  I'm sorry you felt so much grief. Maybe your wifes pregnancies were farther along than mine.  If she miscarried (not in the case of the ectopic pregnancy) then something was probably not right with the embryo/fetus (don't know how far along she was).  I think I read something like 1/3 of pregnancies never make it to term.  Don't know if that's the correct number. 


yeah so much for that broad brush they idiots paint life with aye?

I'm not flaming you MB, I don't have a problem with someone who is personally against abortion but doesn't try to make it a law. That's why it's pro-CHOICE. I can see the other side of it somewhat. If you ask a group of people about abortion, most likely each person will have a different opinion of when it should and shouldn't be allowed, how it should be regulated (or outlawed), etc. That's why it should be up to the person facing it.


I wish that more people who were against abortion would focus on prevention of pregnancy, with something other than "abstinence forever" which is based on (how they think) people SHOULD act instead of how they DO act. Although the people who are opposed to birth control are fewer than those against abortion.

Abortion is the best possible option for the fetus. For the parents, well, they're not involved, are they?  "Why do we rejoice at a birth and grieve at a funeral?  Because we are not the person involved."  (Mark Twain)


I still fail to understand why inflicting life upon some innocent blastocyst is good, or even decent.

Man if your serious about that comment you need to go see someone mate.


Life is precious and should be protected wherever and whenever its possible.


However if you really feel that soemone is better of never having the chance of living then you and I are going to be a taking a long time to fidn soem common ground



Again MB that is just your opinion.  Brian has his opinion.  I don't think that rapist/murders, etc. lives are precious.  A LOT of kids all over the world have HORRIBLE lives.  Telling Brian that he needs to go see someone is pretty rude & judgemental.  I sorta agree with him to a point.  Not everyone believes the extreme ways both of you seem to.  In MY opinion you're sort of looking at the world through rose-colored glasses, and you can't even bring life into the world.

My first comment to Brian was probably a bit harsh.. sorry.


I do have issues with people who dont think life is precious though. Rapists and murderers arent my favourite people either but if you say that their lives are worthless and they deserve to die then where does that leave you? Arent you jsut as bad as the murderer?


Now when we are talkign about a child which hasnt had a chance to make those sort of hideous decisions yet. What if they child was the next Albert Einstein, Mother Theresa or name any other great mind. Even if that child turns out to be the next Hitler or Dahmer it deserves the chance to live.


Yes these are all our opinions.. and this is a forum for us putting our opinions out there to be tested. I will test those I dont agree with and I expect others to do the same to mine.



" and you can't even bring life into the world."


I find that comment rude and judgemental. My opinion doesnt count because I dont have a womb? really?


Just FYI and as I have stated previosly in this thread I have brought 3 children into this world. As a father my role is jsut as important as my wife (althougth I'll grant you she did all the hard work in the beginning). Dont discount my thoughts and opinions on this most important subject. As I have also said before this isnt a feminist issue its a humanist issue.



Actually No, YOU didn't bring life into this world.  It takes a womans uterus.  She can go to a sperm bank if she just wanted a baby.  You would have to find a woman willing to carry a child if you wanted a baby and didn't have a woman.  It's not judgemental, lol, it's true.

Also, with your arguement that a child could be the next Einstein, then why don't people just not use birth-control and have so many people on this planet they just die in huge groups from hunger, no clean water, etc.  They already do!!!!

Where did I say I would kill murderers and rapists?  I said their lives are not precious. 

You have no say in what a woman does with her body.  Keep your laws off my body.  If you are against abortion, then never have one. 

It's still just your opinion and I don't agree with a good two-shoes, rose colored glasses attitude. 



Even if you go to a sperm bank there is still a male involved.. you cant beat the biology that men are involved somewhere.I thinks its a problem where men are excluded from the bringing of life into this world. If more guys accepted this and more emphasis is placed on it by society then I think we coudl solve a lot of problems.


You say keep the laws of your body, well firstly I have never said I supported outlawing abortion, just that it should be discouraged, secondly keep your laws of the body of a defenceless unborn child.


I ask you where else in life is someone able to arbitrarily kill someone else?


Yes prevention of an unwanted pregnancy is the best solution and education and programs to support young woman, and young men are paramount here.


However if all that fails and a woman finds herself with an unwanted pregnancy than my personal morality says she has no right to kill the fetus.


Give it up for adoption, keep it and raise it, whatever. That kid is better off living than not, no matter what happens to it in life. It may grow up underprivledge and live a life of crime and doomed to repat the process but that is life. It can be harsh and a lot of the times it sucks, but its better than the alternative.


Plenty of people have grown up in such circumstances and have risen above it, plenty have started out with all the benefits in the world and still mucked it up.


That a woman though her own choices, or even in cases of rape, the choices of others has an unwanted pregnancy is not the fault of the child she carries.


Lastly I would like to stress that you are wrong about me not bringing life into this world. To me being a father is the most important role in life I have, second only to being a husband. While its possible for there not to be a male so connected with the process it should not discount the role i have played and will continue to play.




I don't agree. Not living is much better than suffering. Yes there is always the chance that the situation will improve and there will be less suffering. But there would be no suffering if the child isn't born. 

Totally agree with you Scott.  SO MANY suffering, unwanted children in the world.  We are realists about there not being a 'god', don't understand how someone can be so unrealistic about the fact that SO MANY children suffer and live horrible lives because they aren't wanted.
"No one recovers from the disease of being born, a deadly wound if there ever was one."-E.M. Cioran


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