Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by The Secular One on May 4, 2011 at 7:42am

Wow, you just suggested illegal, unethical and immoral torture to gain political points.  Way to be creepy.

Permalink Reply by Marc Draco on May 4, 2011 at 7:51am

LOL! On the other side of this coin, I did feel that Obama was gloating a wee bit too much - perhaps to gain political spin over George "Mission Accomplished" Bush.

 

Where I'm looking from (England) were we're rather less cavalier, this could be the start of an all-out war.

Permalink Reply by Meddlesome on May 4, 2011 at 7:54am

I see americans celebrating way too much over one mans death...

Permalink Reply by The Secular One on May 4, 2011 at 10:12am

START of a war?  Are we selling cookies over there right now?

Permalink Reply by Marc Draco on May 4, 2011 at 10:36am

All out war, Stephan. A kind of perfect storm war.

 

I'm assuming you've seen that movie Unthinkable?

 

I've always thought that 9/11 was a result of America's actions overseas (ably abetted by Europe, it has to be said). Obama (and the US in general) always came across as if they were all innocent: I don't see it that way (and more than I can condone 9/11). I honestly thought then that Bush would turn the middle east into a great big mirror after that; but then, he needed their oil.

 

I hope I'm wrong, but this act could be the trigger for a shitstorm on your homeland the like of which we've never even imagined.

Permalink Reply by Meddlesome on May 4, 2011 at 10:57am

Agreed, Its called blame the victim. The only one responsible for the violence is the one who does or initiates the violence.

Permalink Reply by Marc Draco on May 4, 2011 at 11:42am

No argument with that John... but why are we pissing in their pool anyway? Oh yeah, it's because we wanted their oil - the oil under their land - and they didn't want to give it up.

 

America, let's not forget, created Bin Laden in the first place - she trained him to fight another war (for them) against another sovereign state. Bit like training an attack dog and then whining when it bites you on the arse.

 

I'm seeing this from a moderate perspective - in a country where guns are outlawed and we don't assume that everyone prays to a god. Where even the worst criminals have rights.

 

Bin Laden was unarmed - and that means he was not an enemy combatant. Getting shot in the face was probably the best thing to happen to him - in his eyes, he goes to Islamic heaven and becomes a martyr. One of these things we know to be false, the other is a virtual certainty. 

 

The general feeling in the UK and Europe seems to be running the same way. Particularly as we're more likely targets simply because we're physically closer.

Permalink Reply by Gecko, Seth...brother of Richie! on May 4, 2011 at 11:54am

 How many combat zones have you been in Draco? How much military time?

  Bin Laden was "already" fighting the Soviets, we supported the Muhjadeen (or however its spelled) of which Bin Laden was a part. Then we left. Against the advice of those who knew that this land needed our help. And i didnt see any Europeans running to help either. Which would have been kind seeing as how many of the problems to this day in the middle east, and damn near ALL the problems in Africa were caused or greatly fueled by European nations. 

 

Permalink Reply by Marc Draco on May 4, 2011 at 12:02pm

Precisely how is my employment history relevant to this discussion?

Funny how just about every time America comes to "help" someone, it fucks up and then rewrites history. Would America have entered WWII if Japan hadn't attacked Pearl Harbour?

Trust me, as a nation, America is running out of friends in Europe. Perhaps you should pay a bit more attention to European press than question my motives.

Permalink Reply by Joseph P on May 4, 2011 at 12:50pm

It would be better if we can simply stop short of that point and stop using the stuff completely.  I'm all for increasing our usage of solar power, wind, and hydro-electric, at any cost.

Permalink Reply by The Secular One on May 4, 2011 at 6:06pm

Well, when Western democracies help those theocracies gain power and keep it, it is partly our fault when those governments do something stupid.  That's simply the risk you take when you muck with other people's governments.

Permalink Reply by Gecko, Seth...brother of Richie! on May 4, 2011 at 11:41am

  We have been open to a shitstorm any time the enemies of the west have the opportunity. Thanks to the last ten years their oppotunities have been greatly diminished.

  Next point, Im NO fan of W, but to think any president even one with Dick Cheny would be "able" to turn the middle east into glass without suffering a first strike from a nuclear power, is a laughable bit of paranoia. A hang over from the fringe left of the cold war. Equvalent to the rightwings paranoia about the UN,and black helicopters.

  As for bringing it upon ourselves, dude, put down the kool aid. We were guilty of not STAYING in Afghanistan after the defeat of the Soviet forces. We left a midieval, fuedal land to the mercies of radical religious nuts with modern arms. Of this we were guilty. We didnt "CREATE" Bin Laden, we didnt "create" Saddam.

  Having said all that, I do hope that in the future we stop putting "stability" ahead of our principles and our wants when it comes to dealing with dictators and ideologes . But thats a different post.

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