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Occupy Wallstreet?

Opinions anyone? The more I hear about it the more I appreciate it. Yeah, sure it's like the tea partiers, except these people seem to be more invested and willing to stay to make a point. It's all Rush and Beck can whine about lately, and despite the few advocating anarchy and communism, the main message seems to be about releasing this country from the strangle hold that business and corporations have on government. It's been a long time coming...

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Permalink Reply by Sassan K. on October 18, 2011 at 1:02pm

I simply mean not respecting our country or institutions at its core. While one may disagree with and want reasonable change - that is one thing. But to spit at what it means to be American and the values of freedom and democracy we stand for by attacking our capitalistic system and democratic ideals at its core - I consider that to be anti-American.

Look, I am Iranian-American. I know what it is like to live in tyranny and oppression as well as to having family living in tyranny and oppression. It is an insult to see some compare us to the Islamic Republic as not having much of a difference between us (believe me, I've seen it too many times); we are a nation of secular values and rule of laws and while imperfect, we should be proud of our democratic ideals and institutions which has made America a beacon to freedom and democracy; not spit at it and give every excuse in the book to attack America. Simply look at the signs of these kids and see how many of them consist of such loons as "9/11 truthers, NWO conspiracy theorists, end FED nuts, isolationist cowards" and the such. I don't hate them, but I have disdain for their ignorance and in addition, they are setting up to be a burden on President Obama being reelected (which at this point I want, since the Republicans have no viable candidates). We must not be caught up in the emotion of things in losing our resolve in fighting against Islamic fascists and radicals who want to bring an end to humanity and cause the deaths of as many people as possible in the west.

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Permalink Reply by Jedi Wanderer on October 18, 2011 at 1:58pm

"to spit at what it means to be American and the values of freedom and democracy we stand for by attacking our capitalistic system and democratic ideals at its core - I consider that to be anti-American."

Before you go around throwing inflammatory labels at people and questioning them on such a deep, moral, and personal level, you had better first understand what it is you are talking about. It is because people such as myself, on the left end of the political spectrum, have questioned what capitalism and democracy means that we voice our concerns. We have investigated the matters on deep, philosophical levels and have come to conclusions which warrant questioning of unbridled capitalism, which leads to powerful interest groups like mega-corporations and bank conglomerates in tandem with a weak government and a democratic system which is far from perfect, which has shown itself impotent to deal with major socio-economic problems, all of which has led to a serious corruption of our democratic processes and an auctioning of political positions in what amounts to a plutocracy. We are trying to DEFEND democracy, not overturn it! You have not taken the time to appreciate the differences among the people you attack, lumping thoughtful, honorable people in with ""9/11 truthers, NWO conspiracy theorists, end FED nuts, isolationist cowards" and the such". How would you like it if we lumped you in with theocratic, fundamentalist, plutocratic, anti-science, anti-reason, authoritarian fascists? I don't think you would appreciate it very much. And you are missing a much simpler point - we could easily accuse you of being anti-American as well, because our definition of what America should be and how we ought to go about getting there is different from yours, and we wouldn't want "your kind" forcing your opinions on us either. The truth of it is that we are dealing with very complex problems and most people haven't thought their way entirely through to the logical conclusions of their beliefs, and still they have no problem with voicing their opinions with the unassailable conviction that what they believe is clearly true. We can't all be right. So it just isn't nice to accuse people of being bad Americans just because others have a different point of view than you do.

And there's more. Islamic terrorists are not the only enemies out there. There are people here at home who want to destroy us as well. You should know that if you are an atheist living in this country. And just because we disagree on some basic things does not mean that we don't have a lot of agreement in other basic areas. The reasonable people on the left do not want anarchy, we do not want to be supported financially without earning it, and we are not weaklings who wouldn't defend this country against people out to kill us or convert us. You mistake our convictions for weakness. But it is out of strength that we fight for better living and working conditions, better opportunities in the workforce, better education, and more of a voice in our democracy. We think it will make us stronger, not weaker, to have an economically just system which is democratically more responsive to our voices, and to get into fewer wars with better justifications for them and better planning for how they will play out. There are a lot of voices on the left, and to be sure, many of them are more extreme than the ones I've been hearing on Nexus (which have been on the whole very thoughtful and reasonable), so listen carefully so that you don't make the mistake of just lumping us all together into one indistinguishable pile. Maybe then you will hear the voices of reason on all sides of every issue, because there are good ideas on both sides of the aisle, if you are capable of thinking things through to conclusion.

And you might not agree with us on many things, but don't call us anti-American. The phrase itself is anti-American at its core.

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Permalink Reply by Sassan K. on October 18, 2011 at 3:08pm

While I will defend the right to burn or desecrate a U.S. flag - I will still call the person who does it anti-American. Note: you defended burning the U.S. flag as something honorable and patriotic. That speaks volumes on your character.

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Permalink Reply by Jedi Wanderer on October 18, 2011 at 4:14pm

Running around in the same tight little circles, eh? You are a crass, classless, characterless buffoon. And from now on I'll have NOTHING to do with you.

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Permalink Reply by Madison Burnett on October 18, 2011 at 4:28pm

... If Wanderer won't touch it then let me reiterate... actually nah trolls bug me and I'm starting to smell one in your direction

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Permalink Reply by Susan Stanko on October 18, 2011 at 6:12pm

*Standing-O*

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Permalink Reply by Jedi Wanderer on October 18, 2011 at 6:14pm

Thanks Susan, but it was apparently all for nought. I thought I had a chance of actually getting through to him, but some people just can't be reached. Ah well, I appreciate your applause!

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Permalink Reply by Madison Burnett on October 18, 2011 at 4:26pm

Just for the record I'm pretty sure that I can replace your race card with my race card and the statement will be basically the same. What exactly is it about your particular race/heritage makes you so much better at deciding what is American and what is Anti-American. By the definition that you have given, the fact that I can go and vote is "anti-American" because at one point in time trying to gain complete freedom for African Americans was considered "anti-American and to go against the democratic ideals at it's core" We were nothing but stupid savages who needed to work and keep our noses out of white business lol.

So basically your definition and your attempt to back your attempt by tossing your race card in bold letters (for emphasis I presume?) has been voided by mine lol. Please try again sir.

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Permalink Reply by Joan Denoo on October 25, 2011 at 12:20pm

Sassan, I am a little old lady who experienced the Great Depression, and watched our daddies go off to World War II, I learned about freedom, justice, a nation of laws not men, loyalty, dependability, resourcefulness, sacrifice, patriotism as many USA citizens did. We know corruption in our capitalist system is real and we constantly maintain our vigilance to keep USA true to its values. For you to imply that protest, or resistance, or skepticism or organizing is "un-American" reveals your naivete. That is exactly what the USA Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and the Bill of Rights address.

Perhaps USA is not as bad as other countries; are other countries the measure of our greatness? Or is it that individuals are able and willing to stand up in face of corruption, or resist exploitation wherever it occurs, or refuse to be dominated by those who lie, cheat, steal, or bully us.

I personally take offense when lumped in with those you call un-American. I take seriously my responsibility to resist and protest; to do otherwise is un-American. I also work hard at being the kind of citizen I believe my country calls me to be.

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Permalink Reply by Jedi Wanderer on October 25, 2011 at 1:29pm

"The concentration of wealth and power among a chosen elite is as anti-American as it gets. It also is unsustainable." -David Goodfriend

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Permalink Reply by Madison Burnett on October 17, 2011 at 7:43pm

Forgive me for intruding on an interesting conversation, but I do have a question because you all seem a bit more educated on this movement than I probably am.

So from looking at all of the graphs what I seem to be seeing is an issue with the fact that the top 1% of this country has an unbelievable amount of money and from looking at the pictures I do catch a good bit of the redistribution of wealth type of ideals. And I noticed a bit of discrepancy with the whole what do you define as "American" question so I'll try to not confuse the two issues with my question.

Is it not a part of the American Dream to be able to start up a company and become hugely successful, even if you are screwing people over and buying out all of your potential competition as far as you can to stay within the boundaries of the anti-trust and anti monopoly laws?

If the answer to the above is yes, then how do we, as citizens of this country, find a way to moderate this scenario?

If your answer to the first question is no, then how do we, as citizens, deal with this problem besides protesting because we all know that simply just protesting won't do much of anything.