Objectivism and Ayn Rand Discussion

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Andrew Wiggin on November 4, 2011 at 6:56pm

So you and Tonya are at this stage:

> Eventually, when people feel fat enough, they will enact altruistic measures like the Sullivan Act

but between the two of you, you have two different ideas of how to tweak things.  My point is, capitalism with benefits is the only thing that will ever work long term, because it's so deeply rooted in human nature.  Other systems will either implode or creep back to what comes naturally.

Of course most people will be wrong some of the time.  But the discipline of the market gives us each a chance to seek a near-optimum path.  Collectively (no thanks to Ms. Rand) we work civilization forward.

Permalink Reply by Andrew Wiggin on November 4, 2011 at 6:58pm

I'm not so sure about Jason's facts.

Permalink Reply by Joseph P on November 3, 2011 at 6:55pm

Hmm, seems we've got a scalability issue here.  Maybe that's the real problem?

 

Not really.  Anything will work on a small scale.  At that level, personal interaction overrides the weaknesses of any system.  If a system doesn't work above the level of a small clan, it's not a scalability issue; it's that the system sucks.

Permalink Reply by Tonya Wynn on November 3, 2011 at 6:02pm

Fil, Ayn Rand would agree with you that for her Utopia t work everyone must think as she does (be self-supporting).  She writes of it at the end of Atlas Shrugged, as Galt's Gulch, I believe.

Permalink Reply by AtheistTech on November 26, 2011 at 10:01am

I love your careful consideration of Rand's Objectivism. Could you give us a sample of those false premises?

Permalink Reply by Joseph P on November 26, 2011 at 10:05am

Could you quote some of the post you're responding to?  I tracked back three pages, and I still couldn't figure out what you're replying to.

Permalink Reply by AtheistTech on November 26, 2011 at 10:25am

This is the post I responded to

Permalink Reply by Joseph P on November 26, 2011 at 10:28am

Ah.  You really need to have the failings of Utopian societies explained to you?  :-D

Permalink Reply by AtheistTech on November 26, 2011 at 10:40am

Thanks for calling me stupid. It goes a long way to bolster your arguments. And the truth is, yes, I do need the failings of Utopian societies explained to me.

Permalink Reply by Kevin Benbow on December 10, 2011 at 9:40pm

David, I think you need a dictionary.  You don't seem to understand what a Fascist is.

Permalink Reply by Tonya Wynn on November 3, 2011 at 5:57pm

She was against excess taxes (most).   Her belief was that if you take care of yourself, then others won't be forced to take care of you...you won't become a burden to eachother.

Permalink Reply by Andrew Wiggin on November 4, 2011 at 8:12am

Contributions are voluntary, taxes are imposed.  If you don't pay taxes, men with guns will come and do bad things to you.  People who leap from that fact to "taxes==theft" are engaging in a bit of hyperbole.  But they have a point.

Before the New Deal, there was a growing trend toward founding Mutual Aid societies.  If things had gone differently, those societies might have grown to fill the needs that government (=tax) is now filling.  Maybe they will yet have their day.  In any case, I doubt that Ms. Rand worried about such things.  Her main concern was that the stars not be held back by the rabble.

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