Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Meddlesome on June 6, 2011 at 3:20am

Two words : Stockholm Syndrome

 

M.

Permalink Reply by matt warren on June 6, 2011 at 11:41am

some one that sets themselves up as a submisive part of a relationship will give free reign to whomever is "on top".

this will result in abuse at some point.

this is pointed out over and over in tests , past and present.

the domenent person WILL, over time start to abuse the submisive. no way out of that one. its basic human nature.

these women are just reenforcing the bullshit concept of "keep em fucked and happy".

it doesnt work.

 

Permalink Reply by Sandy on June 6, 2011 at 12:19pm

Yes, I think any woman who joins an Obedient Women's Club just doesn't understand men. Sad, really, because they think they do.

And I can sort of sympathise with anyone getting abusive with a totally passive partner. Apart from it being irritating and dissatisfying, it must be very tedious and tiring.

@Susan and @Dustin. Thanks guys.

Permalink Reply by TByte on June 6, 2011 at 8:04pm

I guess one simply needs to ask the questions, "Had TByte started a thread about how shallow and materialistic women are, and whether that is all they want out of a relationship would it have been assumed he was being sarcastic?  And would the women on this site be satisfied if he followed up with a comment such as 'Hey, can't you take a joke?'"

If your answers are in the affirmative, then I'll confess to being out of line.  But then I would have to wonder....where exactly are all the threads denigrating women in a humourous and manner on this forum?

And why, when Glen Rosenberg made this clearly joking comment in this thread:http://www.atheistnexus.org/profiles/blogs/the-gender-disparity-in?...

So we need atheist video games, public debates where famous atheists destroy theists, public support of just causes and condemnation of religious discrimination, fortune cookies, bazooka joe and atheist strip bars.

He got responses like this:"You can see part of the problem in Glen's post below.  He is stereotyping women and essentializing us, and because he views women through pre-conceived beliefs about what all women are like (which do not describe me much at all by the way), he is actually unable to see us for who we really are.  It is really offputting for women like myself who are aware that the reception of our entire being is filtered through viewpoints like Glen's, which allows men to preclassify, dismiss, and devalue our contributions a priori."

And after he took pains to explain that his comments were in jest, he got these responses:
"you should realize that sexist jests might not be taken as funny by those who are precisely not ok with being forced into the position of sex class."

"Would you be making racist jokes in response to a person of color?"

"Maybe you should ask yourself honestly why you're making these kinds of jests in response to the airing here of a serious issue."

So, "NO!"

The article referenced was serious.

There was NO sarcastic tone evident in Sandy's commentary which in its entirety was "Just wondering, but is female submission the only thing that makes men happy and keeps societies afloat? You hear this argument again and again all over the world, and the saddest thing is when you hear it coming from women."

None of the responsders wrote ANYTHING suggesting they took this as a jest, until after Sandy gave her post-facto apology.

This kind of attitude would NOT be condoned or dismissed as a joke if it had been denigrating the female gender, and I've cited a specific example to prove the point.

Joseph, I respect your fair-mindedness, but I am not out in left field on this.  Sandy's post was meant to provoke two responses: rigtheous indignation from women, and apologia from men.  In this, she even suckered me in until I stepped back and realized the intent.I am simply fed up with seeing my gender being portrayed as rapists, wife beaters, warmongers, and sex-obsessed louts.  I ain't gonna put up with it no more.

Permalink Reply by Dustin Williams on June 6, 2011 at 8:41pm

Sandy's comment that you find so horribly offensive was:

Just wondering, but is female submission the only thing that makes men happy and keeps societies afloat?

Seriously?

Permalink Reply by TByte on June 6, 2011 at 10:30pm

Yes, I do.

Now answer me honestly Dustin...

If I were to ask the question "Just wondering, but is finding a man to support them the only thing that makes men happy?", would that be considered offensive by the women on on this forum?

Yes, or no?

And why are we men CONSTANTLY being told that we are slaves to our hormones, little evolved from neandertals?

And why are we men constantly being portrayed as idiotic moops in media?

And why are our many positive contributions to society constantly being denigrated or ignored?

And why are we constantly told that we are oppressing and subjugating women?

I'm sick of it, Dustin.  Like you, Justin, I use to apologize for it.  I would tell me feminist friends back in college that not all men were like that.  Many men are caring and considerate.  But then eventually I came to the conclusion that comments and posts such as Sandy's are made with the purpose of keeping men in a perpetual state of guilt.

Well, I don't feel guilty about being a man.  I'm not a rapist.  I'm a good father.  I volunteer in my community.  I'm selfless and self-sacrificing, which I believe is inherent in men's nature.  I'm ambitious and competitive, which I also believe is inherent in men's nature, and despite the demands of feminists I refuse to apologize for this, because this drive is what has brought our civilization to the advanced state that it is today.

I have three sons, I don't believe they should have to feel guilty for who they are.  I don't believe they should feel like they must constantly reassure women that they are have their evil nature under control.  I don't believe they should suffer the discrimination that men suffer in our society today.  Laws specifically gender targeted that discriminate against men.  Social services that favor women over men.  All while our boys our suffering and failing in our educational systems.

I understand where you are coming from, Justin.  I understand that it is the innate selfless, generous, and self-sacrificing nature of our gender which leaves you honor-bound to accept this guilt trip.  But I, quite some time ago, realized that our culture is abusing the most honorable of our male qualities.  It's ok to portray as idiots on TV, because we are men and we will not complain.  Its ok to receive a paltry share of health care funding, because we are men and we accept self sacrifice.  Its OK to be denied any role in our children's lives except financial assistance, because we are men and we are driven to provide for our families.

But it is not OK with me when this no longer appreciated for the noble sacrifice that it is.  And it is not OK with me to have my sons treated this way.

Permalink Reply by Joseph P on June 6, 2011 at 10:43pm

Culture swings back and forth along a median point.  We never correct a problem.  We over-correct ... then over-correct the over-correction.  Get used to it.

Permalink Reply by TByte on June 6, 2011 at 11:28pm

Joseph, if we got used to it, if we simply accepted it, why would it ever swing back?

Permalink Reply by Joseph P on June 6, 2011 at 11:38pm

No, get used to the swing pattern.

Permalink Reply by TByte on June 6, 2011 at 11:41pm

Nope. Call me Gravity, buddy. I'll shut up when people are treated with equal respect regardless of gender (or sexual orientation for that matter).

Permalink Reply by Joseph P on June 6, 2011 at 11:47pm

The pendulum swing is caused by gravity.

Permalink Reply by TByte on June 7, 2011 at 12:04am

No, the swing is caused by inertia and potential energy.  Gravity actually tends to make it settle at the center, unless some other force is pushing it to one side again.

I know my physics, and I know my metaphors!

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