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Now that Health Care has passed the Senate - over 65's being tossed out of hospitals ...
One of the claims of a teabagger sympathizer in my office - who, by the way, I generally like as a person - is that the new health care system will result in older people being denied health care to (this is a direct quote) 'die without help at home.'
I really have to wonder what the naysayers will do when all the apocalyptic claims turn out to just not happen.
Someone once told me its called "debating the facts." The avocado 'controversy' is a great example. There are people who continue to argue over whether avocados are fruits or vegetables. Let's see, they grow on trees and are the seed bearing part of the plant. They are fruits by definition. There is no controversy - yet the argument continues.
So now that the elderly won't get kicked out of hospitals, small businesses will get help covering employees, people with preexisting conditions will be covered, ER's get used much less often as doctor's offices for the uninsured - what are the teabaggers going to claim? Are they going to argue against verifiable fact? Or will they eventually just go home and shut up about it?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Howard S. Dunn on -
I love peaches smothered in ricotta! Wait - peaches grow on trees and have a single pit ... imagine that! :^)
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Permalink Reply by Denise Royer on -
Apples are great with cheese... so are pears. Where does this fact come from?
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Permalink Reply by Prog Rock Girl on -
Anymore these days, people are putting strawberries in vegetable salads and everything. Just any crazy combination of food.
Under the colloquial/kitchen defining of fruit/vegetable, fruit is whatever plants are sweet, vegetables are non-sweet plants. But there are fruits that are non-sweet, and a few vegetables (carrots, sweet potatoes) that are sweet. Oh whatever, they're all one category to me.
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Permalink Reply by mojo5501 on -
Well some of the reforms don't start until 2014 so they've got practically 4 years to "make more stuff up"!
This is a grassroots, populist uprising of people that just don't seem to trust ANYBODY.
Taxes are evil.
Reform is evil.
Regulation is evil.
Liberals are evil communists.
President Obama is "the Joker" (homicidal maniac??)
There just isn't any moderation left in that kind of worldview. It's a republican to the farthest right of the range a citizen could BE....WAY out there.
I'm personally amused to see Sarah Palin out there being the anti-intellectual sideshow performer with McCain AGAIN...it's like a bad re-run. She'll have her reality show and her little podium to stand behind and entertain us all while McCain stands there stiffly looking like he's having some intestinal problems.
This is going to be fun to watch...McCain??? Seriously? He's not conservative ENOUGH for the GOP anymore. Grand Old Party...the name fits, I guess.
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Permalink Reply by Prog Rock Girl on
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Even besides that, the wealthy teabaggers will decry the hardship they've had to endure if they get tax increases.
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Permalink Reply by mojo5501 on
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What seems very interesting to me is that the teabaggers seem such a mix of citizens: political independents, grassroot conservative activists, high school drop-outs, and angry white guys. And most of them would probably be in the income bracket to be eligible for tax breaks...not tax increases. I wonder if any of them have given serious thought to what would happen to our country if tax revenue decreased to a trickle...have they envisioned THAT kind of society? Where everything is privatized? No public works departments, public libraries, police & fire protection services, road building/repair, public parks, etc.
They don't have a coherent message or system in place to become a 3rd party...but they seem to be nipping on the heals of moderate conservatives and GOP incumbents. To move the political agenda to the far right. And they use anger, frustration, and even threats of violence to get their message across...as if they'd ever be mistaken as a "subtle" mob.
They are sure passionate about Sarah Palin also. She likes to add "my husband is an independent" into all her speeches as she fires up the crowd with her folksy folksiness. She grates on me like metal scraping on metal.
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Permalink Reply by Joey on -
"What seems very interesting to me is that the teabaggers seem such a mix of citizens: political independents, grassroot conservative activists, high school drop-outs, and angry white guys"
The important thing to remember is they're being bankrolled by the Koch brothers and other scum sucking degenerates we should have thrown into a deep hole a long time ago. Those are the people that pay for the buses, printing costs, advertising, and PA systems. The common link between the average teabagger is flaming stupidity and an almost religious hatred of independent thought. They're incapable of arguing in anything but talking points. That's why they're passionate about Palin: She's as ignorant and credulous as they are. They think she's the kind of gal they can have a beer with.
The entire exercise is an attempt to move the Overton window so far to the right that even talking about taxing corporations becomes taboo. That's why a bagger rally of 200 people gets more coverage (and much more favorable coverage) than anti-war rallies that numbered in the tens of thousands.
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Permalink Reply by Howard S. Dunn on
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What is amazing is the number of lower middle class teabaggers - losing jobs in the rust belt partially due to companies inability to keep up with union healthcare that then affect these peoples jobs in dependent industries such as small parts manufacture. They lose the lionshare of sons and daughters in Iraq - started an escalated by their beloved Bush administration, have no healthcare themselves, get tax breaks from progressives and then complain that the rich will have to pay higher taxes. It is unbelievable to me.
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Permalink Reply by joseph f logston on -
the easily lead teabaggers are tools for big money corperations (Ruthard Murdoch, Glenn beck) to there cause, (profits) tea-b are put in a racist driven frinesie,that attract hate, they do not want a blackman in the white house, the health reform bill is not the real dive here...........
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Permalink Reply by mojo5501 on
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There is an anti-intellectual angle to this also. President Obama's background is highly educated...so I would argue that people often put him into the "elite" category, even though his family upbringing certainly wasn't Ivy League.
I agree that a message is being transmitted to people that are already frustrated: Blame Big Government. Blaming government representatives is the path to take and corporate fraud, corporate waste, and "Wall Street Hustling" is completely ignored. The goal seems to be taking out incumbents of both parties and replacing them with Washington "outsiders", like Sarah Palin. Palin loves to play the part of the outsider and that is why the tea partiers LOVE her so much and recognize themselves in her folksy persona.
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Permalink Reply by mojo5501 on
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And how much of the federal deficit is directly linked to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? President Bush sure didn't seem to set money aside for those "government expenditures", did he? President Obama has inherited THAT cost. It seems to me that financing the wars by writing open ended checks wasn't exactly fiscally conservative!
And when the troops come home...THEY will need health care....a lot of it, I bet.
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Permalink Reply by Caperton Miller on -
Here's the thing with the Teabaggers. My brother is one and arguing with him is like shouting at a storm cloud. It just keeps coming. It doesn't fucking care. If the facts don't line up with their talking points, the call them lies. If conservatives call out the baggers for these same lies, the baggers say that their not "real conservatives". (See David Frum.)
But here's the big thing about them, and Fox News, and Limbaugh radio, et. al. They actually ARE having an effect on the electorate. So when polls come out saying people are against healthcare, how come no one on CNN or even MSNBC says simply, "yeah, their against it because they've been LIED TOO for the past year.
Period. These people are ignorant because they are being lied to. It's not unlike religion itself. It is lies, and people are gullible.
Politically they're gonna' cherry pick one case where someone loses their healthcare, or their premium goes up even AFTER Obamacare, and then they'll hammer this outlier story over and over. They'll be a tour with Palin and a show with Joe the Plumber. On and on.
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