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Non-scripture - the black hole.
Hi all,
My only child is starting in Kindergarten this year and perusing the school's information book I came upon this jolly little description of what awaits her in non-scripture:
RELIGIOUS INSTRUCTION
Visiting clergy and lay teachers conduct scripture classes on Wednesdays. Parents have the option of allowing their child to participate or withdrawing them from scripture classes.
It says nothing about what she will actually be doing. Something along the lines of "Parents have the option of allowing their child to participate in scripture class or participate in non-scripture class." would even have been acceptable but no. She just gets to look forward to the light of scripture or apparently a black hole of nothingness.
Ok, at the end of last year I got all non-theistically self righteous about non-scripture and told myself, and several other people, that I would see if the school would let me volunteer to help out with the non-scripture kids. Apparently they get time in the library, which is actually a very good option, but they just get whatever teacher is free and colouring sheets. A parent volunteer could at least read the younger ones stories or help the older ones with their reading etc. A parent volunteer who is there every week (in addition to the random staff member of course) could get to know the kids names at least and point them towards things that might interest them in the library. So, good plan right?
I've got cold feet.
I want to do it but I don't want to be singled out as a non-scripture nut in what is largely a white christian community. The Mum who "has a thing" about non-scripture. It's not so much for me, but I'm apparently paranoid about drawing what might be perceived as negative attention to my child. Wow. I'm neutotic. Am I neurotic?
I still want to do it, and now is the time as school is just starting up, but the question is.....should I?
Oh, and I know the answer is yes but I just want some support. :-)
Regards,
Limber
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Фелч Гроган on -
By withdrawing your child, you have already marked yourself anyway. It is a hard call to identify yourself - we all know it to one extent or another. But if no one steps forward, then the kids are left with a void that could be filled constructively. Also consider it to be a step to begin networking with other non-theist parents in your area. It could prove to be a bonus.
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Permalink Reply by Limber Lightfoot on -
The language is very off putting. "allow them to participate" ie "let them do what they want to do" or "withdraw" them, ie "remove them from the class" when she hasn't even started at the school!
The more I think about it the more timid I'm becoming. Perhaps I should leave it a while til I get a feel for the school. Whilst I appreciate irony I'd rather not be crucified for my lack of beliefs.
But then again...my daughter is just starting school and as you say we have already decided to "withdraw" her from scripture. She will be in that black hole class and if I man up, so to speak, I could be there with her making it a whole lot more fun for her at least....that's if they even let me help which is another matter.
I'm torn.
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Permalink Reply by Sonny Mobley on -
What will they even have them doing in the non-scripture class?
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Permalink Reply by Rayray on -
Sounds like a good thing! I wonder how many other closet atheists there are in your town just letting their children attend the scripture classes just to avoid being alienated. On the other hand, I wonder how many children will be in attendance of the "black hole". These are the children of parents who do not agree that scripture is proper for their children. Could be atheist. Also like Felch said, it would be a great chance to meet like minded people.
If cornered, bring up the fact that the bible is the second bloodiest book in publication. (The Koran being the first), you dont believe that this is proper subject matter for a kindergartner. You would rather her learn from much more peaceful books that the library has to offer. The simple story of Noah (as I am sure they will learn in the class) the whole world drowns to death.
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Permalink Reply by Limber Lightfoot on
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I'm in Australia. Scripture is offered at all public primary schools and the denominations supported are dependant on what denominations have representatives that approach the school wanting to "teach". At the local school the enrolement package inlcudes a slip of paper with your options, it's either tick a) Protestant, tick b) Catholic, or choose non-scripture and you have to send in a note expressly saying you don't want your child going to scripture class. I have nieces whose schools offer Judaism and Buddhism and Islam too, but here it's just Christianity or non-scripture. When I was growing up I was in non-scripture from about year 5 (age 9) because I rebelled against going to church around that time and there the non-scripture kids played ball games in the schoolyard, which was great. Under the Australian system the school are not allowed to offer anything substantive to non-scripture kids and are not allowed to teach them. They are just to be supervised. It's only half an hour a week but it's for all seven years of primary school. Seven years of half an hour a week is enough to give a decent grasp on sign language or another useful skill but that would be too likely to encourage the ambivalent parents to send little Johnny to non-scripture so it isn't allowed.
There is a reasonable amount of debate here over the whole scripture in schools issue but our politicians right now are decidedly churchy so I can't see anything changing in the near future. There is a biggish push for an option for kids to do an ethics class in opposition to scripture class but I don't hold out high hopes for that either.
I've heard of schools where kids whose parents but them in for non-scripture end up being in the same room as the scripture class, so the child hears everything, but is seated away from the other children and in not included....so all the stigma but none of the insulation! I've also heard of cases where the non-scripture kids are just sat at a desk twiddling their thumbs for half an hour while the scripture kids sing songs and make cotton wool sheep and things, so non-scripture seems like a definite punishment. I hope that mostly the kids are just placed, like at my child's new school, in the library.
I'm not expecting much stigma, but enough to get branded a weirdo. When I had my baby I joined a group at the local government baby health centre and from there I became part of a group of mothers in the local area who meet often and talk online and help eachother with the whole motherhood thing. Until then most of the friends I had made since school had been pretty much atheists like me but I slowly worked out that all these lovely, helpful, and intelligent new mothers around me were, without fail, automatic believers in God. Some know I'm an atheist now and seem more amused than anything else. How funny that Limber doesn't think God is real. They are my friends though and know me for my other good qualities. I don't think I want the school at large to have my "lack of christianity" as the first thing they find out about me. Even if I do put my hand up for volunteering with non-scripture I'd be a fool to mention atheism and would probably just say that I didn't agree with school scripture and keep it vague.
I've been led to believe that not many kids are put in non-scripture which is not surprising with the way it is presented to parents. My husband is a practical atheist but even he would have ticked Protestant just to avoid writing a note, or not seen too much harm in "some bible stories". I think parents tend to be mostly of a different religion or really quite strongly non-theist to put their child into the non-scripture black hole here. We shall see.
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Permalink Reply by Tom Thompson on -
"I've also heard of cases where the non-scripture kids are just sat at a desk twiddling their thumbs for half an hour while the scripture kids sing songs and make cotton wool sheep and things, so non-scripture seems like a definite punishment."
This seems especially likely. I suspect that for a child being singled out would almost always be interpreted as punishment or would force them to question matters which are beyond their level of experience. That would be an unfortunate side-effect. It seems like the best case scenario would be to gather the largest number of other children to be included in the non-scripture group and either push for, or offer by yourself, a real activity as an alternative. Are there any atheistic groups in your area? You will probably need to become activist for your child's sake.
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Permalink Reply by Limber Lightfoot on
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For in-school scripture time there is provision for inviting a representative of any religious group to come to the school and teach children whose parents wish them taught by that representative. There is utterly no provision for the representative to be an atheist, scientist, general theologian, darwinist, ethicist etc, it has to be an acknowledged religion. I think even scientologists can run classes if they want to.
It's only half an hour a week. If she can get through that scripture half hour each week without being indoctrinated, bullied, or too bored it's a good outcome.
I was at a dinner with about 9 other Mums recently and one mother mentioned that her 10 year old son, at my daughter's school, has asked to change to non-scripture this year out of catholic because non-scripture was more fun. There was a solitary "yay!" from my end of the table *grin*.
I've also heard that last year there was a biggish movement out of scripture classes to non-scripture after little kids were going home upset because they were being told they had to love God more than they loved their Mummies and Daddies. That's a big deal if you are under 10. Maybe sending them to scripture is the best way to nudge them towards atheism afterall. Maybe I'll send her for a term when she is 10, I expect by then she would be sufficiently well equipped to run screaming.
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Permalink Reply by Rayray on
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Yes, I believe that the child should be well enough to apply logic to what they are hearing before they are indoctrinated as a child. Its just not fair to program someone like that.
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Permalink Reply by Michael on -
Just tell the school you don't agree with the schools brand of god. You don't have to announce to the world that you're an atheist, unless you want too. I'm shocked that Australia even has scripture classes, always figured it was one of the more forward thinking countries. I thought it was pretty bad here in NC, usa heart of the bible belt, where they still have prayer at the flagpole in the morning and students that don't go at least occassionally get looked down upon. Funny how the people that should get looked at like they're crazy are the ones that aren't.
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Permalink Reply by Limber Lightfoot on
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This update on this thread is that I did ring the principal and have a chat about non-scripture. I asked for details, and pointed out that none were given in the school literature. One of my concerns was that I'd been told that the kids woud have a different teacher supervising them every week, so no continuity or connection, but he said that the kids would have the same teacher every week so I'm very happy about that and equally happy not to, therefore, volunteer to help out. My daughter's class turned out to be scheduled for the middle of the day which would have been a pain to get to. I asked if I could give her an activity book to use in that time period but was told that she would be given activities....albeit activities that would not be viewed as competition with scripture (in accordance with govt policy).
My 5 year old daughter has now done one week of scripture (in the non-scripture class but they all call it scripture nonetheless which I'm actually ok with as it avoids division). She sat outside with a teacher and a few other kids and they each did an activity sheet of a connect the dots robot and then they coloured in the robot. She had a lovely time apparently. My call to the principal was largely to provide proof that non-scripture parents do care about their children and are keeping an eye on him/the school.
I've been told that the older kids get to use the library for free reading or homework or whatever and that sounds fine with me.
So, at this stage it's about as good as it can be given the way the system is set up.
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Permalink Reply by Rayray on
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Its weird how Govt. policy states that activities cannot be as competition with scripture classes, not taking into consideration that scripture class is competition with actual class, the kind with facts and such.
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