NO! We can't just get along!

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Permalink Reply by Фелч Гроган on February 8, 2009 at 5:52pm

(No offence meant to LeaT)

My experiences with the pagan/witch/new age crowd are almost exclusively negative. The level of arrogance, elitism, snobbery and yes, bigotry, leaves most of mainstream religion for dead. I had a Wiccan girlfriend for 3 years, and the amount of grief she suffered for screwing a non-believer was appalling. They are nowhere near as different to the big religions as they seem to be able to convince themselves they are. Same leopard, different spots. Apart from all that, the collective IQ is about at the level of a wet mop.

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Permalink Reply by Moonbeam on February 8, 2009 at 6:25pm

"Personally, I'm a little tired of the old "science can only answer the question of how but not why" argument."

Yes, why is the question--why all the bullshit, why people make up things and pretend that they're real, why they feel the need to do that in this day and age.

The only thing that's better about them over xians is that they're less organized and less able to inflict their stupidity on the rest of us.

I'm never sure what "spiritual" really means, as opposed to mental, emotional, etc.

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Permalink Reply by Deborah on February 8, 2009 at 10:16pm

If they annoy you, why not just avoid them?

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Permalink Reply by Фелч Гроган on February 8, 2009 at 10:49pm

Because they're extremely good fucks.

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Permalink Reply by Deborah on February 8, 2009 at 11:02pm

Then don't winge about their arrogance, elitism, snobbery and bigotry.

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Permalink Reply by Фелч Гроган on February 8, 2009 at 11:23pm

It was a remark that was half flippant, half fond memory. I have known several Wiccans that treat it as a personal and private spirituality. When asked why they aren't involved in covens or participate in the whole group subculture, they share the exact same sentiments that I do.

And I do avoid them. Now. The group kooks that is.

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Permalink Reply by funk Q on February 9, 2009 at 4:59am

When I lived in Sydney I was friends with many "Spiritualists", I suppose they are. They practised all that tarot, cleansing, exorcising spirits, wearing rocks and more. I just let them carry on and sent them up regularly.

I think when you are friends you can pass over their wierd beliefs if you can agree to tolerate each other's opinions. No one ever tried to convert me though they did explain their beliefs, which I think they make up as they go along.

I do know they were most often lonely, female and carrying some hurt from their young days. I suppose forming groups and communicating helped them in some way.

Atheism as it is now doesn't have any structures in place to be able to do what spiritual groups can in the way of mutual support. Perhaps that's why A/N is growing so fast; we feel supported and among like thinkers.

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Permalink Reply by mthoreau on February 9, 2009 at 1:03pm

I've had similar experiences. While I have run into one or two males who read tarot and what not, it seems that this is a primarily female phenomenon. I think that the New Age movement has a lot more to do with teen angst and emotional vulnerability than it does with any kind of spiritual insight.

I totally agree with you on the dearth of Atheist communities. Perhaps historically, there usually hasn't been enough of us in one place at one time to create any kind of community, but Atheism in America is stronger than ever. I would love to be part of a community of atheists in the physical world as well as the digital one.

Religion satisfies many emotional needs. Perhaps the reason that we are still a minority is because we don't offer anything to replace the security blanket of a deity. All we can offer is community and mutual aid.

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Permalink Reply by funk Q on February 9, 2009 at 7:44pm

I also remember there always was a matriarchal personality who would organise functions and use these to sell the necessary charms, trinkets, infusions, oils etc without which you can't possibly survive. She also charged for every other bit of mumbo-jumbo from aura cleansing to getting deceased spirits to "cross over".

I agree with felch that many of them were not bright, some I knew had uni quals but couldn't cope with the big wide world and sought some sort of comfort with these rituals. The way I see it is that not everybody will be attracted to the support systems which are offered or be accepted by them and maybe these things do something apart from provide a good source of income.

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Permalink Reply by Loren ɟɟןoʍ on February 17, 2009 at 9:05am

Very well put and I couldn't agree more. I feel that religion offers up mass social clubs that people love to belong to. They feel part of a community when people are grouped and labeled the same, Jews, Christians etc. As atheist we are strong enough I feel not to need to lean on a religion to mask, support, cover for, help insecurities. However, as our choice is in the minority, it is reassuring or let me say uplifting rather to know there are other like-minded people who show intelligent insight and clarity of thought other than ourselves.

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Permalink Reply by james charnes jr on March 2, 2009 at 12:42am

see if all of us non-believers got into a community together we would be a threat to all whom take gods word you will never see an atheist country on this rock we live on no one ever will

if this happen most of the world will lose control but if it ever happened it would surpass every nation because there will be no religious hold backs

people feel the need to replace everything they dont understand with faith needing something to believe in when there is nothing when pain grows so large and vain everywhere they look
the mind starts to listen to bull shit when you have nothing. faiths of the world gives them hope so they change their lives around which is just the faiths controlling the masses
most believers that i have came across have at one time been in the gutter or have had lots of pain weak minded and wanting the hope of fulfillment we cant offer that as a community because we cant answer them questions our selves or give them that fulfillment that people crave. we ask to many questions to fall into this but thats why some non-believers fall for some one that does believe for that fulfillment they try to give you

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Permalink Reply by LeaT on February 9, 2009 at 3:37pm

I have actually NEVER ecountered any true New Ager besides one throughout my life, and that was because he was writing some interesting fantasy stories which I enjoyed reading back then. He was/is a Wiccan and used to at least back then, when I still spoke to him, do tarot.

I am myself utterly fascinated by tarot and astrology etc, but I don't give it any credibility as "uncovering of truths". It can however of course be fun as long you take it all with a grain of salt. Especially if you got some alcohol in you I guess.

I should also add that I had the impression of this person being at least averagely intelligent, so I am surprised to see your reactions towards New Agers here. I had no idea there was such a picture of them. While I don't claim to respect them all, of the ones I've heard of (at least here in Sweden) they are a way better and mature crowd than any Christian group you may find (even in Sweden).

Maybe it's more that New Age might be bigger and more popular as a subculture in USA, I don't know. I had a period in my life when I was seriously considering converting to Wicca, but realizing that living up to the rituals and ceremonies was too much, I change my mind (yes, I guess you can call me lazy).

Now afterwards I don't regret that decision. Rituals seem meaningless to me, especially when practiced alone.

And btw Felch it's fine, I don't really consider myself New Age as there is little in what I do which can be classified with them ;)

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