Neurological relativity

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Michael Howard on June 26, 2009 at 10:26am

Pipe dream? Perhaps in this time and place. I don't see coming to common ground with a person who thinks we should burn for eternity. Where is the starting point with a person, ala George HW Bush, who states that he believes that because I am an Atheist I am not a citizen? Unfortunately kj we are dealing with a vast majority of people who clearly are not thoughtful enough to even own Prometheus Rising much less find the wisdom within to ask if we can find a meeting of the mind. I’m interested in your thoughts on this.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by kj on June 26, 2009 at 3:06pm

Oh I hear that! Actually, in my personal life I'm discovering that finding real life ways to link these theoretical concepts to their direct life experience helps to ease them into acceptance of other people's lack of "faith". It definitely not something that can be accomplished in short order. Perhaps I'm even lucky enough to me attempting this experiment with some more open minded Christians.

It really ties back into something I've begun spreading the word about here on A|N. The idea that we must be willing to take the time, and have patience with people still firmly entrenched in dogmatic religion. No person won me over to the cause of Atheism. It took years of studying and getting a decent understanding of religion as a whole for the understanding to sink into my own hard skull. We often get too engrossed in watching our own back porches, and forgetting that Atheism is a world cause... not simply one that must be applied to the U.S. exclusively, and if we don't approach people with calm, rational discussion they will without a doubt feel injured and react accordingly.

Also, I do realize there will be some that are "hardline" and WILL NOT accept anything outside of their tunnel-reality. Those people will only bait, argue, and attempt to reason their sometimes outlandish belief systems against our incomplete scientific knowledge. They deal in absolutes and have only been taught to think using Aristotelian logic. Offering them science which they see as flawed does no good in convincing them. They do not understand that the science is like the Constitution... built to adapt, ready to be expanded upon and open to rewriting and reforming anything within its own constructs. That makes it very powerful indeed!

We may have believe we have better answers than them, but we also must have some humility in opening peoples eyes... or we risk blacking our own, and ruining our chances of success in the process.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jared Lardo on June 26, 2009 at 5:48pm

Bingo.

This is a cool way of putting it. I've found people mad and crazy, just as this states. I've also figured out people's thoughtpipes. I do this all the time to resolve misunderstandings between others and me; I get in their heads, so to speak. I even think I know what that Time Cube fellow was going on about. (It's the useless realization that four faces of a rotating cube are each experiencing their own revolution about the common center of rotation of the cube, yielding that "four simultaneous days" crap he went on about.)

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Фелч Гроган on June 30, 2009 at 12:11am

There is something whacked out going on. Not only has there been a sudden and silent resurgence in the last few years of interest in traditional cynicism, but RAW's seminal works are starting to appear in free online versions -

Prometheus Rising
The Illuminati Papers
Cosmic Trigger

And now, the entire Illuminatus! trilogy as a .pdf (also attached in case link vapourises).

No, these are not tin-foil hat loon writings (though the less critical may see them as such) but quite amazing philosphical works, albeit wrapped in twisted and perverse humour fnord.

Attachments:

• Wilson, Robert Anton - Illuminatus Trilogy.pdf, 1.9 MB

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by kj on June 30, 2009 at 8:42am

I would assume that with dear old Bob gone know for a little bit, and the sad state of royalties due to authors whose works were published by New Falcon Press, have given his fans a reasonable excuse to make these available for free.

New Falcon Press published a lot of "fringe" authors, including books by the founder Christopher Hyatt. Dr. Hyatt passed early last year and in a story that could easily come from some strange movie, his son from a previous marriage who had been adopted and never was a part of the good Doctor's life, had legal documents crafted to procure the publishing firm. Dr. Hyatt's business partner and wife of 30 years have developed "The New Falcon Press" in order to attempt to keep the reputation and the function of the old press alive. I was communicating with Tharcher last week and mentioned that I would do my best to spread the word about this injustice. Sadly the only thing that can be done is to avoid dealings with New Falcon.

Thanks so much for posting these felch. Although I have most of his work in print, it is nice to have a digital copy... never know when it will come in handy.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by mthoreau on July 1, 2009 at 4:01am

First off, we all have the same equipment up there even if the details vary. I have not read Prometheus Rising, but it sounds like he is preaching the kind of hard line subjectivism that the woo-woo crowd uses as a "defense" of their nonsense. Facts exist and so do observable phenomenon. As Atheists, I would hope that empiricism is the common standard of reality and that what we call Objective stems from there. I looked up Robert Anton Wilson on Wikipedia and he sounds like like he's spent the past 30 years in an acid trip. To say that "we can't truly know anything" is just as absurd as saying "we can know everything with certainty".

So no, neurological relativity does not sound reasonable.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Фелч Гроган on July 1, 2009 at 6:33am

Don't diss what you haven't read. I would suggest the Illuminati Papers I linked above. Lots of short, easily digested articles. I'll be the first to admit the guy is waaaaay out there, and there is some of his crap I just draw the line on and ignore. But, there our innumerable unique gems in amongst the babel. Remember - he is first and foremost a prankster. There is no way of knowing if anything is serious.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by kj on July 1, 2009 at 10:06am

I'm glad I don't judge the weight of a persons 40 years in published print by the mettle of their "wiki" page. You are of course entitled to your opinion on the matter, but then again... shouldn't you at least read some of the subject matter before passing judgment?

Either way, I would have to fully disagree if you do not see that the "reality" each of us see, is only an approximation. NONE OF US sees the whole picture, no matter how hard we may try.

What kind of fact are you talking about? Scientific fact? They typically go through revision and change on a regular basis. How about an Irish fact? Perhaps a "fact" from Scientology?

See the problem is that we've been crafted to accept "facts" and ignore other aspects of our reality. If something happens to me over and over, and I'm told by a person who has been given a piece of paper stating they are a scientific authority... and they tell me that there is no factual evidence to support my observations, does that make my own experience non-factual?

Fact is not a singular all encompassing term, neither is reality. They both have shades of gray.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Reginald Martin on October 28, 2009 at 4:36pm

Excellent response and on target.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Фелч Гроган on July 1, 2009 at 10:21pm

Cheat tip: saving ScribD documents (not all of them have a 'save' option) -

Install PDFCreator or an equivalent widget that installs a .pdf printer driver (there are LOTS). This allows you to print any document directly to a pdf file. When you do, you will find a pdf option under ScripD's more/print menu item.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by mthoreau on July 2, 2009 at 6:54pm

Ok fine, I'll give him a shot.



Sounds like woo though....

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Фелч Гроган on July 2, 2009 at 11:22pm

It is woo. But there's a method to the wooness. A sample written in 1980 -

THE PARATHEO-ANAMETAMYSTIKHOOD OF ERIC ESOTERIC (POEE)
A Non-prophet Irreligious Disorganization
American Anarchist Association
"LEADERSHIP MEANS TAXES"

THE ERISIAN MOVEMENT
HOUSE OF APOSTLES OF ERIS

 
(X) Official Business ( ) Surreptitious Business ( ) Page 1 of     1      pages
Official Discordian Document Number (if applicable): ODD/2b; iii/V; 60EM3134
( ) The Golden Apple Corps (xx) House of Disciples of Discordia; the Bureaucracy, Bureau of: Self-Reflexiveness
( ) Council of Episkoposos; Office of High Priesthood, Sect of the POEE ( ) DrawerO 

Today's DATE: 60 EM, 3134 (1968 pagan)         Yesterday's DATE: 59 EM, 3134 Originating
CABAL: Kount Korzybski Commemorative Kabal


TO:     Dr. S.I. Hayakawa
It has lately come to Our ears that you frequently and conspicuously pronounce sentences in public having an "is of identity" followed by a "snarl word"; e.g., "These students are fascists," "These students are crazed by dope," etc.
A scientific discipline known as General Semantics teaches that such sentences have detrimental effects on the nervous system of the user, contribute to neurosemantic disorientation, create confusion between the map and the territory, and lead to unsane behavior. A person habitually addicted to such sentences imitates animals in his nervous reactions, becomes dogmatic and categorical, loses the characteristically human consciousness of abstracting, and may even become so impassioned by neurosemantic primitive reactions as to commit crimes against property, such as attacking other people's trucks, tearing up other people's wires, etc.
There have been several excellent teachers of General Semantics abroad in the land during recent decades, and one of them, coincidentally, has the same name as you; if We were not aware that "the label is not the thing;" We might even think he was you. By further coincidence, this man when last heard of was also at San Francisco State College. We suggest earnestly that you should attempt to get in touch with him, if he can still be reached, and obtain from him some basic training in General Semantics principles.
He might also teach you something about neurosemantic relaxation. In the last photograph We saw of you confronting the dissidents, your entire face, shoulder, sand body showed rigidity, neurosemantic "closedness," and the general nonverbal
message, "Don't talk to me; my mind is made up." General Semantics might also teach you how to grow out of this Infantile and primitive attitudinal set and function as a time-binding and open personality. Please get in touch with the other Dr. Hayakawa and give this a try.

"This Statement is False"
Goddess bless you,
T^i^A^^
(courtesyof POEE)
Theophobia the Elder, TLETC

 
Kallisti   ~~~~~~   Hail Eris   ~~~~~~   All Hail Discordia

• ▶ Reply

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• 3
• Next ›
• Page