Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by PizzaTheHutt on February 7, 2009 at 12:51am

Well tell the principle that the kids trying to convert your religion that should get him away in the avoidance of a lawsuit. The majority of christian kids are just blind followers and will either snap out of it in college or stay that way not much one can do about it. Welcome to the site.

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Permalink Reply by Blake on February 7, 2009 at 12:58am

Yea, I realized that most of them are born into it so just automatically believe it and they don't want to convert or anything because they are scared of going to hell.
Thanks for the welcome.

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Permalink Reply by Rickr0ll on February 7, 2009 at 1:24am

"which goes against the religion itself in a way"- No, it fundamentally goes against the idea of having a personal relationship With Yehweh Or Jesus (note that the two are mutually exclusive).

Funny thing was, i really like this one girl that was a Jesus freak once. when it didn't work out, i got pissed off at God. No response. "Ok fine, fuck you God", and i developed the intellectual capacities to realize that i was right, even if for the wrong reasons lol.

How do you get them to stop? Start an atheist's support group in your school lol. They can't bar such a group from forming, after all. Atheism is legally considered a religion ;) I'm actually working on an insurgency of atheism in my old School (a private christian school), and have orchestrated a system whereby the school will eventually force itself to acknowledge the arguments Against Theism, Christianity specifically- though to be honest, it's a little too easy to pick on something like Christianity when you have religions like Buddhism and Hinduism which are wrong, but Just Barely (Buddhism doesn't even have gods in it!). Anyway, welcome once again! The Young Atheists group is perfectly suited for your specific needs on this issue.

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Permalink Reply by Blake on February 7, 2009 at 2:12am

Thanks for the welcome.

BTW, what I meant by "going against the religion itself in a way" was because God isn't supposed to get angry/hate, is he? He is supposed to be all loving, etc. and you can be forgiven for everything. Atleast, according to Christian belief. I meant that because they are afraid of angering their God, they are contradicting their belief that they can be forgiven for everything and are always loved.

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Permalink Reply by Rickr0ll on February 7, 2009 at 10:13am

"and you can be forgiven for everything."
No, that is a Yahwist belief- the sect of Jews that showed up somewhere along the line and "canonized" Their scripture- just like the Council of Nicaea- and when they did that, they established this "Cosmic King" paradigm that the Catholic and Protestant Churches ran with. Though i don't think they were intellectually or philosophically developed enough to reason that he was both Cosmic Orchestrator And Placid Sugardaddy- they stuck with the judgment and condemnation part (how else do you govern a theocracy?).

The whole "Christ can forgive anything" idea was just pulled out of their asses to be sure -it's no wonder it goes against the grain of the whole religion as it was at that point- Human sacrifices were Looong out of practice by that time. Though obviously condoned many times by such stories as Sampson, Abraham and Isaac, David and his first son with Bathsheba, and Jephthah.

Furthermore- the idea of an eternal soul was a Platonic concept, which is why it only shows up in the Hellenistic Judean province of Rome, and therefore the NT, but is not discussed at any great length in the "Canonized" OT.

So, keeping all of these many factors in mind- i think it's interesting to note that Mormons have probably the closest conception to Xianity+ Judaism (as it was originally intended), and are actually if you look, just Catholicism 2.0. And Calvanists are utterly honest about the Soveriegnty of God (they don't even believe in free will). So, there are a few straight faced factions of Xianity, just to be sure.

This is all forgetting of course that the 1st Christians were likely Gnostics- who believed Christ was just some sort of spiritual avatar-and not really the Son of God at all. Keep in mind also that the name of God changed to accommodate their absurd beliefs, twice. Yahweh-> Adonai/Elohim, and with Christians they took the non-name Jehovah as the Adonai figure, while Christ was actually just the next version of Yahweh (who, unlike his contemporary re-visioning, shows up in texts of other religions at the time). Here's the link that explains it fairly well:
http://www.georgeleonard.com/yahweh.html
David Marjanović, OM, from Pharyngula, is very well educated on this subject, as is Owlmirror. So ask them for any pointers. A great link for their "historicity" claims is this:

http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/otarch.html
Knowledge is power, my friend ;)


I seriously recommend that you inform people about their religion's history and development as opposed to objecting to it- they would likely listen to your knowledge on the early church. I mean, if you aren't already doing so.

With an Athiest Insurgency chapter in your school, it will be at lot easier to stand up to these proselytizing morons. If you were as brazen as i am, you might be tempted to actually go to church one weekend as cause a large disturbance lol.

Keep in mind that there are also many "Fence-Sitting" or "Liberal" Christians that are fine with atheism/agnosticism; you know, those nasty cosmopolitan, friendly, open-minded Pluralists (DAMN THEM ;) ). John Shore is one, and this woman is another: http://emphaticasterisk.com/2008/02/15/hell/

Hopefully some of this is helpful. sorry if none of it is. I ramble often.

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Permalink Reply by Blake on February 7, 2009 at 11:32am

"and you can be forgiven for everything."
Replying your reply directly to this-
Hmm. Well, if they pulled it out of their asses then I guess it is a pretty big lie, heh, because every Christian I have every spoken to has told me that "you can be forgiven for everything and anything" and that you "just need to pray". I remember going to church around age 6-7 and being told it by the pastors.

And about giving this person history of his religion-
I have tried, before. He claims he knows most of the stuff about Christianity and the Bible. If anything I told him was to his disliking, he'd just disregard it and call me a liar. He's done it before. To be honest, I don't really find it appealing to try and do it again.

Yea, some of it was helpful. "I ramble often." I noticed that. xD

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Permalink Reply by Rickr0ll on February 8, 2009 at 3:15pm

The Whole "just pray" is Protestant Bullshit!

"Faith without works is Dead"- and it is by faith that we are supposedly "saved/forgiven/blessed" (note that these words ALL have different contextual and theological meanings!). So, yeah, there is no basis for any of the shit they say- otherwise why wasn't there a similar system in the OT? So he's closeminded, AND he tries to force his beliefs on you? Jeez, if it were me, i would probly have decked him by now.

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Permalink Reply by Blake on February 9, 2009 at 4:49pm

Yes, extremely close minded. Also, he's unfortunately rather dim-witted.. I'm pretty sure that the arguments I make toward him (which are often based on contradiction) are futile because he doesn't understand them. He disregards them as nonsense, and calls me stupid because I am using "circle reasoning."

...

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Permalink Reply by Rickr0ll on February 11, 2009 at 11:15pm

so... kick his ass. He shows you no respect, so tell him if his "God" is so great, let me see him stop my fist right now! BAM!

Sorry, but physicality is sometimes the best And worst bet.

Get going on that Atheist support group though ;) and we'll talk about better alternatives.

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Permalink Reply by mojo5501 on February 13, 2009 at 8:22pm

I disagree with the "kick his ass" approach, but I'm a 46 year old woman with a kid in middle school and a kid in high school. Both being raised without religion. Both good students that are independent thinkers and not members of any "support groups".

But you do what YOU think is right without getting kicked out of school in the process, okay? College will be a much more enlightening experience...if that's the direction you're heading. I don't mean to be presumptuous.

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Permalink Reply by Blake on February 13, 2009 at 10:06pm

I plan to go there, eventually. And thanks for the help. I've been assertive, but I'm guessing I'm just going to have to get aggressively assertive about it to make him stop..

Permalink Reply by Angie Jackson on June 4, 2009 at 4:35pm

LMAO - God gets angry all the time! The word "smite" is made just for him and when he gets mad enough to kill somebody. He turned Lot's wife into a pillar of salt for turning around to look at her burning hometown as they fled Soddom and Gamorra (sp awful I know and don't care). Plus the flood? Killing kittens and puppies and ants, all but two of each. Sad and mean.

Christianity is about the carrot and the stick. If you're good and obedient and don't ask questions, god will love you and you can spend eternity in heaven with him playing harp music. If you're bad or don't believe in him or worship other gods, he'll make sure you get the snot beaten out of you forever in hell. And he'll probably make life on earth suck too.

Best son ever regarding this:

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