My message is that Jesus did not exist but was a 4th century literary fabrication

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Permalink Reply by Kookaburra Jack on June 11, 2010 at 6:20am

@SM who asked "Indeed, why create a whole new religion based on Jewish theology? Particularly when a whole new population of clergy have to be trained in this new religion"

So that the entire Graeco-Roman priesthood could rightfully consider themselves utterly redundant. Constantine did not want any authority in the empire other than his own. He therefore supported a Jewish "Holy Writ: so that he could rightfully make the entire Graeco-Roman priesthood redundant. They would not need their temples and shrines and they would not longer use them for any business. They would not need the temple gold and silver and bronze and treasure and art and statues -- and so Constantine ordered his army to plunder the temples.

Constantine was a gangster. He had no regard for the Greek civilisation. He was only interested in two things. GOLD, so that he could continue to pay the army, particulalry the barbarian chieftans who lead it, and ABSOLUTE POWER which ended up corrupting him just like the Twelve Caesars presented by Suetonius.

You also asked ... "Why not favour one of the existing cults, even to the point of abandoning and forbidding other cults and gods?"

I would answer because he did not want to share power with anyone. He realised at some stage that he owned the army and the civilians (through excessive taxation in gold bullion) and the only class of people in the empire (leading to c.324 CE) that he did not "own" were the traditional Graeco-Roman priesthood, who were custodially entrusted with a great deal of wealth and authority. He did not favor any of the extant cults. I believe that he thought he would have far more control if he simply invented his own.

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Permalink Reply by nick altman on June 11, 2010 at 7:11am

If this was all to give Constantine power, why did it perpetuate after his death? Did he decide he wanted to pass on this power to his sons when they went on to rule jointly or did he pass it to the priests? I am ignorant of the details of the church at the point of his death and would be interested to know. Did the priests decide they would take advantage of his death and take over where he left off? I doubt any of them actually would have believed the religion was real sincerely and pass it on to others based on honest zeal, having been forced by their emperor by the sword to worship a new god that they only have the word of a gangster and tyrant exists. Did his sons threaten the same sword and control the church, or was Constantine being a gangster and tyrant beside the point, and everyone believed he had found a true religion in the Jews? I can see it going on if the priests decided to seize control of this system of rule, or the sons of the emperor demanded it.

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Permalink Reply by Kookaburra Jack on June 11, 2010 at 7:44am

If this was all to give Constantine power, why did it perpetuate after his death?

Because "the church" was a very powerful and lucrative TAX EXEMPT business among other reasons.

Did he decide he wanted to pass on this power to his sons when they went on to rule jointly or did he pass it to the priests?

Apparently he made a will but nobody reports seeing it. His son Constantius II apparently engineered a mass mafia killing spree when Constantine went to the underworld. One historian reports Constantine was actually poisoned by his brothers on account of Constantine's savage execution of his son Crispus.

The rule stayed with Constantine;s sons until Julian briefly ruled 360 to 363 CE after which time the Christian Emperors played the END GAME with the ancient Graeco-Roman priesthoods and destroyed all the temples and finally made christinaity the only religion in the empire by means of the sword. If you want to read the sordid details of this epoch the place to start is Vlasis Rassias

=======[Quote = Vlasis Rassias, Demolish Them!]=======

Original Source: Vlasis Rassias, Demolish Them! Published in Greek, Athens 1994


314 Immediately after its full legalization, the Christian Church attacks
non-Christians. The Council of Ancyra denounces the worship of Goddess
Artemis.

324 The emperor Constantine declares Christianity as the only official
religion of the Roman Empire. In Dydima, Minor Asia, he sacks the Oracle of
the god Apollo and tortures the pagan priests to death. He also evicts all
non-Christian peoples from Mount Athos and destroys all the local Hellenic
temples.

325 Nicene Council. The god-man gets a promotion: 'Christ is Divine'

326 Constantine, following the instructions of his mother Helen, destroys
the temple of the god Asclepius in Aigeai Cilicia and many temples of the
goddess Aphrodite in Jerusalem, Aphaca, Mambre, Phoenicia, Baalbek, etc.

330 Constantine steals the treasures and statues of the pagan temples of
Greece to decorate Constantinople, the new capital of his Empire.

335 Constantine sacks many pagan temples in Asia Minor and Palestine and
orders the execution by crucifixion of "all magicians and soothsayers."
Martyrdom of the neoplatonist philosopher Sopatrus.

341 Constantius II (Flavius Julius Constantius) persecutes "all the
soothsayers and the Hellenists." Many gentile Hellenes are either imprisoned
or executed.

346 New large scale persecutions against non-Christian peoples in
Constantinople. Banishment of the famous orator Libanius accused as a
"magician".

353 An edict of Constantius orders the death penalty for all kind of worship
through sacrifice and "idols".

354 A new edict orders the closing of all the pagan temples. Some of them
are profaned and turned into brothels or gambling rooms.

Execution of pagan priests begins.

A new edict of Constantius orders the destruction of the pagan temples and
the execution of all "idolaters".

First burning of libraries in various cities of the empire.

The first lime factories are organized next to the closed pagan temples. A
major part of the holy architecture of the pagans is turned into lime.

357 Constantius outlaws all methods of divination (astrology not excluded).

359 In Skythopolis, Syria, the Christians organize the first death camps for
the torture and executions of the arrested non-Christians from all around
the empire.

361 to 363 Religious tolerance and restoration of the pagan cults is
declared in Constantinople (11th December 361) by the pagan emperor Julian
(Flavius Claudius Julianus).

363 Assassination of Julian (26th June).

364 Emperor Jovian orders the burning of the Library of Antioch.

An Imperial edict (11th September) orders the death penalty for all those
that worship their ancestral gods or practice divination ("sileat omnibus
perpetuo divinandi curiositas").

Three different edicts (4th February, 9th September, 23rd December) order
the confiscation of all properties of the pagan temples and the death
penalty for participation in pagan rituals, even private ones.

The Church Council of Laodicea (Phrygia - western Asia Minor) orders that
religious observances are to be conducted on Sunday and not on Saturday.
Sunday becomes the new Sabbath. The practice of staying at home and resting
on Saturday declared sinful and anathema to Christ.

365 An imperial edict from Emperor Valens, a zealous Arian Christian (17th
November), forbids pagan officers of the army to command Christian soldiers.

370 Valens orders a tremendous persecution of non-Christian peoples in all
the Eastern Empire. In Antioch, among many other non-Christians, the
ex-governor Fidustius and the priests Hilarius and Patricius are executed.
The philosopher Simonides is burned alive and the philosopher Maximus is
decapitated. All the friends of Julian are persecuted (Orebasius,
Sallustius, Pegasius etc.).

Tons of books are burnt in the squares of the cities of the Eastern Empire.

372 Valens orders the governor of Minor Asia to exterminate all the Hellenes
and all documents of their wisdom.

373 New prohibition of all divination methods is issued. The term "pagan"
(pagani, villagers, equivalent to the modern insult, "peasants") is
introduced by the Christians to demean non-believers.

375 The temple of Asclepius in Epidaurus, Greece, is closed down by the
Christians.

380 On 27th February Christianity becomes the exclusive religion of the
Roman Empire by an edict of the Emperor Flavius Theodosius, requiring that:

"All the various nations which are subject to our clemency and moderation
should continue in the profession of that religion which was delivered to
the Romans by the divine Apostle Peter."

The non-Christians are called "loathsome, heretics, stupid and blind".

In another edict, Theodosius calls "insane" those that do not believe to the
Christian God and outlaws all disagreement with the Church dogmas.

Ambrosius, bishop of Milan, begins the destruction of pagan temples of his
area. The Christian priests lead the hungry mob against the temple of
goddess Demeter in Eleusis and try to lynch the hierophants Nestorius and
Priskus. The 95 year old hierophant Nestorius ends the Eleusinian Mysteries
and announces "the predominance of mental darkness over the human race."

381 At the Council of Constantinople the 'Holy Spirit' is declared 'Divine'
(thus sanctioning a triune god). On 2nd May, Theodosius deprives of all
their rights any Christians who return to the pagan religion. Throughout the
Eastern Empire the pagan temples and libraries are looted or burned down. On
21st December, Theodosius outlaws visits to Hellenic temples.

In Constantinople, the Temple of Aphrodite is turned into a brothel and the
temples of the Sun and Artemis to stables.

382 "Hellelujah" ("Glory to Yahweh") is imposed in the Christian mass.

384 Theodosius orders the Praetorian Prefect Maternus Cynegius, a dedicated
Christian, to cooperate with local bishops and destroy the temples of the
pagans in Northern Greece and Minor Asia.

385 to 388 Prefect Maternus Cynegius, encouraged by his fanatic wife, and
bishop 'Saint' Marcellus with his gangs, scour the countryside and sack and
destroy hundreds of Hellenic temples, shrines and altars. Among others they
destroy the temple of Edessa, the Cabeireion of Imbros, the temple of Zeus
in Apamea, the temple of Apollo in Dydima and all the temples of Palmyra.

Thousands of innocent pagans from all sides of the empire suffer martyrdom
in the notorious death camps of Skythopolis.

386 Theodosius outlaws the care of the sacked pagan temples.

388 Public talks on religious subjects are outlawed by Theodosius. The old
orator Libanius sends his famous epistle "Pro Templis" to Theodosius with
the hope that the few remaining Hellenic temples will be respected and
spared.

389 to 390 All non-Christian calendars and dating-methods are outlawed.
Hordes of fanatic hermits from the desert flood the cities of the Middle
East and Egypt and destroy statues, altars, libraries and pagan temples, and
lynch the pagans. Theophilus, Patriarch of Alexandria, starts heavy
persecutions against non-Christian peoples, turning the temple of Dionysius
into a Christian church, burning down the Mithraeum of the city, destroying
the temple of Zeus and burlesques the pagan priests before they are killed
by stoning. The Christian mob profanes the cult images.

391 On 24th February, a new edict of Theodosius prohibits not only visits to
pagan temples but also looking at the vandalized statues. New heavy
persecutions occur all around the empire. In Alexandria, Egypt, pagans, led
by the philosopher Olympius, revolt and after some street fights they lock
themselves inside the fortified temple of the god Serapis (the Serapeion).
After a violent siege, the Christians take over the building, demolish it,
burn its famous library and profane the cult images.

392 On 8th November, Theodosius outlaws all the non-Christian rituals and
names them "superstitions of the gentiles" (gentilicia superstitio). New
full scale persecutions are ordered against pagans. The Mysteries of
Samothrace are ended and the priests slaughtered. In Cyprus the local bishop
"Saint" Epiphanius and "Saint" Tychon destroy almost all the temples of the
island and exterminate thousands of non-Christians. The local Mysteries of
goddess Aphrodite are ended. Theodosius's edict declares:

"The ones that won't obey pater Epiphanius have no right to keep living in
that island."

The pagans revolt against the Emperor and the Church in Petra, Aeropolis,
Rafia, Gaza, Baalbek and other cities of the Middle East.

393 The Pythian Games, the Aktia Games and the Olympic Games are outlawed as
part of the Hellenic "idolatry". The Christians sack the temples of Olympia.

395 Two new edicts (22nd July and 7th August) cause new persecutions against
pagans. Rufinus, the eunuch Prime Minister of Emperor Flavius Arcadius
directs the hordes of baptized Goths (led by Alaric) to the country of the
Hellenes. Encouraged by Christian monks the barbarians sack and burn many
cities (Dion, Delphi, Megara, Corinth, Pheneos, Argos, Nemea, Lycosoura,
Sparta, Messene, Phigaleia, Olympia, etc.), slaughter or enslave innumerable
gentile Hellenes and burn down all the temples. Among others, they burn down
the Eleusinian Sanctuary and burn alive all its priests (including the
hierophant of Mithras Hilarius).

396 On 7th December, a new edict by Arcadius orders that paganism be treated
as high treason. Imprisonment of the few remaining pagan priests and
hierophants.

397 "Demolish them!" Flavius Arcadius orders that all the still standing
pagan temples be demolished.

398 The 4th Church Council of Carthage prohibits everybody, including
Christian bishops, from studying pagan books. Porphyrius, bishop of Gaza,
demolishes almost all the pagan temples of his city (except nine of them
that remain active).

399 With a new edict (13th July) Flavius Arcadius orders all remaining pagan
temples, mainly in the countryside, be immediately demolished.

400 Bishop Nicetas destroys the Oracle of Dionysus in Vesai and baptizes all
the non-Christians of this area.

401 The Christian mob of Carthage lynches non-Christians and destroys
temples and "idols". In Gaza too, the local bishop "Saint" Porphyrius sends
his followers to lynch pagans and to demolish the remaining nine still
active temples of the city.

The 15th Council of Chalcedon orders all the Christians that still keep good
relations with their non-Christian relatives to be excommunicated (even
after their death).

405 John Chrysostom sends hordes of grey-dressed monks armed with clubs and
iron bars to destroy the "idols" in all the cities of Palestine.

406 John Chrysostom collects funds from rich Christian women to financially
support the demolition of the Hellenic temples. In Ephesus he orders the
destruction of the famous temple of Artemis. In Salamis, Cyprus, "Saints"
Epiphanius and Eutychius continue the persecutions of the pagans and the
total destruction of their temples and sanctuaries.

407 A new edict outlaws once more all the non-Christian acts of worship.

408 The emperor of the Western Empire, Honorius, and the emperor of the
Eastern Empire, Arcadius, order all the sculptures of the pagan temples to
be either destroyed or to be taken away. Private ownership of pagan
sculpture is also outlawed. The local bishops lead new heavy persecutions
against the pagans and new book burning. The judges that have pity for the
pagans are also persecuted. "Saint" Augustine massacres hundreds of
protesting pagans in Calama, Algeria.

409 Another edict orders all methods of divination including astrology to be
punished by death.

415 In Alexandria, the Christian mob, urged by the bishop Cyril, attacks a
few days before the Judeo-Christian Pascha (Easter) and cuts to pieces the
famous and beautiful philosopher Hypatia. The pieces of her body, carried
around by the Christian mob through the streets of Alexandria, are finally
burned together with her books in a place called Cynaron.

On 30th August, new persecutions start against all the pagan priests of
North Africa who end their lives either crucified or burned alive. Emperor
Theodosius II expels the Jews from Alexandria.

416 The inquisitor Hypatius, alias "The Sword of God", exterminates the last
pagans of Bithynia. In Constantinople (7th December) all non-Christian army
officers, public employees and judges are dismissed.

423 Emperor Theodosius II declares (8th June) that the religion of the
pagans is nothing more than "demon worship" and orders all those who persist
in practicing it to be punished by imprisonment and torture.

429 The temple of goddess Athena (Parthenon) on the Acropolis of Athens is
sacked. The Athenian pagans are persecuted.

431 Council of Ephesus ("Robber Synod"). Promotion for the god-man - "Christ
is complete God and complete man."

435 On 14th November, a new edict by Theodosius II orders the death penalty
for all "heretics" and pagans of the empire. Only Judaism is considered a
legal non-Christian religion.

438 Theodosius II issues an new edict (31st January) against the pagans,
incriminating their "idolatry" as the reason of a recent plague!

440 to 450 The Christians demolish all the monuments, altars and temples of
Athens, Olympia, and other Greek cities.
book burning
448 Theodosius II orders all non-Christian books to be burned.

450 All the temples of Aphrodisias (the City of the Goddess Aphrodite) are
demolished and all its libraries burned down. The city is renamed
Stavroupolis (City of the Cross).

451 Council of Chalcedon. New edict by Theodosius II (4th November)
emphasizes that "idolatry" is punished by death. Assertion of orthodox
doctrine over the 'Monophysites' - 'JC has single, divine nature.'

457 to 491 Sporadic persecutions against the pagans of the Eastern Empire.
Among others, the physician Jacobus and the philosopher Gessius are
executed. Severianus, Herestios, Zosimus, Isidorus and others are tortured
and imprisoned. The proselytizer Conon and his followers exterminate the
last non-Christians of Imbros Island, Northeast Aegean Sea. The last
worshippers of Lavranius Zeus are exterminated in Cyprus.

482 to 488 The majority of the pagans of Minor Asia are exterminated after a
desperate revolt against the emperor and the Church.

486 More "underground" pagan priests are discovered, arrested, burlesqued,
tortured and executed in Alexandria, Egypt.
full body baptism 515 Baptism becomes obligatory even for those that
already say they are Christians.

The emperor of Constantinople, Anastasius, orders the massacre of the pagans
in the Arabian city Zoara and the demolition of the temple of local god
Theandrites.

523 Emperor Justin I outlaws the Arian heresy and campaigns to suppress
Arianism everywhere.

528 Emperor Justinian outlaws the "alternative" Olympian Games of Antioch.
He also orders the execution-by fire, crucifixion, tearing to pieces by wild
beasts or cutting to pieces by iron nails-of all who practice "sorcery,
divination, magic or idolatry" and prohibits all teachings by the pagans
("the ones suffering from the blasphemous insanity of the Hellenes").

529 Justinian outlaws the Athenian Philosophical Academy and has its
property confiscated.

532 The inquisitor Ioannis Asiacus, a fanatical monk, leads a crusade
against the pagans of Minor Asia.

542 Justinian allows the inquisitor Ioannis Asiacus to forcibly convert the
pagans of Phrygia, Caria and Lydia in Asia Minor. Within 35 years of this
crusade, 99 churches and 12 monasteries are built on the sites of demolished
pagan temples.

546 Hundreds of pagans are put to death in Constantinople by the inquisitor
Ioannis Asiacus.

556 Justinian orders the notorious inquisitor Amantius to go to Antioch, to
find, arrest, torture and exterminate the last non-Christians of the city
and burn all the private libraries down.

562 Mass arrests, burlesquing, tortures, imprisonments and executions of
gentile Hellenes in Athens, Antioch, Palmyra and Constantinople.

578 to 582 The Christians torture and crucify Hellenes all around the
Eastern Empire, and exterminate the last non-Christians of Heliopolis
(Baalbek).

580 The Christian inquisitors attack a secret temple of Zeus in Antioch. The
priest commits suicide, but the rest of the pagans are arrested. All the
prisoners, the Vice Governor Anatolius included, are tortured and sent to
Constantinople to face trial. Sentenced to death they are thrown to the
lions. The wild animals being unwilling to tear them to pieces, they end up
crucified. Their dead bodies are dragged in the streets by the Christian mob
and afterwards thrown unburied in the dump.

583 New persecutions against the gentile Hellenes by Emperor Maurice.

590 In all the Eastern Empire the Christian accusers "discover" pagan
conspiracies. New storm of torture and executions.

=======[/Quote = Vlasis Rassias, Demolish Them!]=======

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Permalink Reply by Фелч Гроган on June 11, 2010 at 8:03am

So where does Dan Brown come in? And I don't think Tom Hanks would really cut it as Constantine. But what do I know?

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Permalink Reply by Kookaburra Jack on June 11, 2010 at 7:41pm

Dan Brown made his money exposing the satire in the Gospel of Mary in which the author presents Peter as being really peeved that Mary received special knowledge (from Our Man) that the rest of the male apostles did not. Dan Brown makes the point of pointing out that this is what the actual text of the Gospel of Mary actually states.

My thesis is that Dan Brown has exposed just the tip of the iceburg, and that if we are to examine each of the "Gnostic Gospels and Acts, etc" in turn -- one by one -- then this same tell-tale signature of anti-Christian Greek academic satire pervades and characterises all these new testament apocryphal texts that have been turning up in archaeological and manuscript discoveries over the last few centuries from the fround of the 4th century.

For a summary of over 20 "Gnostic Gospels and Acts" exposing this signature of satire directed against the orthodox canonical books of the new testament see this page.


The key to seeing the satire is understanding how Monty Python satirises the new testament story in "The Life of Brian". In the 4th century when it was implemented as the state religion it was serious and imperial business, and it was ridiculed by the Alexandrian Greeks. This negative reception of the state Christian religion was eliminated from history by the orthodox tax-exempt imperially sponsored Christian "Ecclesiastical historians" because it did not reflect well on the christian state religion. The epoch is characterised by the destruction of books, the persecution of non christians, the destruction of the non christian temples and religions. See the above summary by Vlassis Rassias.

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Permalink Reply by Regina Goodwin on November 28, 2011 at 12:32am

Read the book "Awaken the world within" by Hilton Hotema.

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Permalink Reply by Matt VDB on November 28, 2011 at 8:09am

For what purpose?

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Permalink Reply by Rob van Senten on November 28, 2011 at 8:37am

"Hilton Hotema authored numerous books on dietetics, fasting, fruitarianism, breatharianism, vitality, cellular regeneration, longevity, higher consciousness, spirituality, alternative medicine and ancient wisdom"

 

My woo-woo meter has broken again, it went off the scale for a minute, and now it doesn't seem to go back to it's normal position, I wonder why....

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Permalink Reply by heretic zero on February 22, 2012 at 4:54pm

I have no proof but I believe the story of Jesus to be fiction, a Greek tragedy.

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