Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jonathan Simeone on April 28, 2012 at 8:56pm

Well, I have a palm reader and a crystal ball in my corner; that has to be worth something. Lol  

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Permalink Reply by Steph S. on April 28, 2012 at 9:14pm

Yeah you have it made now Jonathan!

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Permalink Reply by Jonathan Simeone on April 28, 2012 at 10:05pm

Hi Joan, I have been totally blind for as long as I can remember. So, I had no trouble identifying with what the kids are going through. I took the job because I really enjoyed camp when I was a kid and I wanted to give back to today's youth. I'm in touch with a few of the kids on Facebook. It was an interesting and rewarding experience.  

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Permalink Reply by Joan Denoo on April 28, 2012 at 11:33pm

Jonathan! I had no idea! How do you get your messages, and how do you answer? Oh my goodness, I can't even imagine how you get around Atheist Nexus. Good for you! Oh! what spirit you have! Have you ever had sight? Can you see light or color? Can you describe how you "see" spring? I promise you, if I ever have an opportunity to walk you through a door, you won't hit a door frame! 

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Permalink Reply by Jonathan Simeone on April 29, 2012 at 12:34am

Joan, I use a screen-reading program called JAWS (Job Access with Speech) to access the computer. Basically JAWS reads what’s on the screen and what I type. It’s more complicated than that but that’s the basic idea. Without getting too technical I’ll say that I can, obviously, use Atheist Nexus fairly well; however, it could be a little more accessible than it is.

 

Colors don’t really mean that much to me. Many different people have tried to describe them but I really don’t conceptualize colors well. On a related note, I don’t picture anything that I haven’t touched before. When I think of something I’ve never touched I think about it in the way I know it; for example, if I think of a person I think about how I feel about them or what they mean to me. When I think about a place I think about why that place matters to me. I’m a huge baseball fan but until I was in my twenties I had no idea what the diamond shape of the infield looks like.

 

If I described spring I’d discuss the sounds and smells of spring. If it was a sunny spring I’d talk about the warmth of the sun—I really love being out in nice weather.

 

I don’t think I’ve ever had any sight but the medical reports from my childhood say the doctors weren’t sure about that. I have no light perception and I don’t ever remember having any.

 

Does this help your understanding? I’m willing to answer any questions you have. I’m a very open person.    

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Permalink Reply by Joan Denoo on April 29, 2012 at 1:58am

Jonathan, thank you for helping me understand a tiny bit of what your challenges are and how you overcome them. Because you are blind, does that give opportunity and time to think about things, to ponder, imagine, and figure out complex ideas? 

I used to have a recurring dream: I fell off a large ship in the middle of the ocean and I was alone at sea, no one to help me, nothing to hang on too. My dream, night after night, included being nibbled away by sharks until there was nothing left of me but my head. Then one night, in my dream I imagined I was fine because I could still think, even if the rest of my body was gone. Sounds gruesome, doesn't it! After I dreamed that last dream, I never had any part of the dream again. 

I don't know why I wanted to tell you about that old dream of mine, but it just occurred to me that you, much like Stephen Hawking, have abilities and potential to develop other aspects of yourself. Can you imagine a world of peace and justice and compassion? What will it take to create such a world? 

There was a man, Ed Lindaman, who was president of the college where I earned my master's degree. I was in deep trouble on my research paper; I had 18,000 3 by 5 inch cards of research data and was utterly overwhelmed. I didn't know how to bring it all together into a thesis. He spent an hour and a half with me and said I had to stop thinking as I had learned to think, and "start thinking in the future tense"; gather all the information I could find on the subject, imagine what I wanted to communicate with my thesis and then write in the details. It worked! Three months later I presented my thesis to my committee, "Toward a Theory of Family Violence: its Antecedents, Treatment and Prevention". I received my master's degree: Joan Denoo, Master of Applied Behavioral Science. 

I wonder if the same thing can be done about leaving a better world? Gather all the information one can, imagine a preferred future, and fill in the details? 

Sorry I took up so much of your time; I just felt I wanted to tell you about me. Thank you for sharing your life with me. I am richer for having you as a friend. 

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Permalink Reply by Jonathan Simeone on April 29, 2012 at 2:40am

Joan, I'd be happy to discuss this further with you but I'm not certain this discussion's the best place for that. I don't want to clog people's email with something that's so far afield from the point of this discussion. Tomorrow I'll write you privately and tell you what your message made me think. I'm always thinking. I have a very hard time getting out of my head.

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Permalink Reply by Steph S. on May 1, 2012 at 4:55pm

Oh I don't mind Jonathan ... I would love to hear what you have to say on the matter .. you could email me as well about that topic Joan asked you about.

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Permalink Reply by Joan Denoo on May 1, 2012 at 6:42pm

Steph and Jonathan, I was puzzled when Jonathan responded as he did, and I surely honor his request. On the other hand, "Morally Depraved because I came out Atheist" is relevant to the subject, but then I am known to go far afield in making connections. The connection I made here is why anyone would use the word, "depraved" associated with atheism, especially when compared to challenges some people face.

I was caught by surprise, Jonathan, when you responded and am curious to understand what your thoughts or ideas helped you face your particular challenge. 

I faced the realization religion not only harmed me and my family, it prohibited me from developing healthy principles. Life, with its bumps, requires critical thinking. When I stopped hoping, praying, submitting, my life got better. 

Reading about Steven Hawking over the years helped me enormously in finding both reason and justification for meeting my challenges. Here is a video I hope will convey the idea I am trying to pass on. I hope audio tells the story. My old eyes get tired reading, so I resort to videos, even if I don't watch, but listen. 

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Permalink Reply by Steph S. on May 1, 2012 at 7:50pm

Yes I also wonder why the association with the word depraved and atheist. It's horrible that they think that about us.

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Permalink Reply by Chris Dodds on May 1, 2012 at 8:47pm

Its because they think that morality comes from god.  So in their minds, one who doesn't believe in god is one who doesn't believe in morality.  Sadly, the media often ignores us so we don't get that many chances to prove them wrong.

Often, when I'm told that I'm not a good person because I don't believe in god, I just tell them "The symbol of your religion is an object that was used in one of the most horrific forms of execution in history, and you have the nerve to call me immoral?"

Sure I don't make any friends in those arguments, but if they're gonna be dicks to me, I'm gonna be an even bigger to them.

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Permalink Reply by Jedi Wanderer on May 1, 2012 at 8:51pm

Try this one instead: "So without the fear of god's punishments or the expectation of the rewards of infinite bliss, you would just be a raving homicidal maniac? No? Then I guess you don't need god to be moral, do you?"

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