 |
The World's Largest Coalition of Nontheists and Nontheist Communities!
Life Before Birth - A Different Perspective
[He brushes the bit-dust off of this ridiculously old file!] GAD! I wrote this piece back in 1992 on a dial-in bulletin board service. At that time, I was having a discussion with someone who insisted that abortion was murder and that only God should be the final arbiter as to which pregnancies made it to term and which don't. [Kindly note: I wasn't the atheist them that I am now!] I said it 17 years ago and will say it again: Fasten yer seat belts, gang!
----------------------------
Stipulated:
Fact: In 1951, between my birth and the birth of my first sister, my mother had a miscarriage. The cause of the miscarriage, at the time, was unknown. My parents are by no means fatalists, but a comment about "God's Will" would not have been unexpected. Had a doctor 20 years later looked at my parents' medical workups, he would have looked at this incident and shook his head. Why? My father was blood-type A-positive; my mother is O-negative. What had happened was a case of Rh mismatch, which has caused uncounted miscarriages throughout history. Sometime after this event, some researcher discovered an anti-agent to this syndrome, now known as “RhoGAM,” and since that time, a lot of mothers haven't had to go through the agony of a failed pregnancy.
So what about all those kids who didn't make it through the nine-month sub-lease because no one knew about RhoGAM? Sinners before their birth? Punishment to the parents for some other arcane sin? If so, what about all those who benefited from RhoGAM? Did God decide all of a sudden to reprieve them or was Man able to trump God's Ace (that one doesn't sound likely for an omnipotent God!)? And how many other pregnancies have failed throughout history, long before antiseptic abortion was available, because God decided they wouldn't go to term? The count would make the total number of abortions in the history of man, antiseptic and otherwise, look like a comparison between the Pacific and a glass of water. What kind of God capriciously disposes of life in this manner? No God I could worship!
The fact is, all of those failed pregnancies had reasons: failure to implant, Rh mismatch, hormonal imbalances, a million other reasons, some of which man is learning to control to the point of potentially eliminating failed pregnancies altogether. I have little doubt that we could potentially live to see the day when prenatal medicine develops to the point of being able to frustrate any agent which would prevent a pregnancy from running a full 40 weeks to successful delivery. Are those children spared God's Wrath, or are they damned because of man's intervention? The plain fact of the matter is that there are those who bridle against God's taking of an unborn child for no discernable reason than His Will, then turn around and scream bloody murder when man does the same thing. Which is the greater sin? I have no answer for that one; I just do as I grok.
All I can see right now is people complaining about killing God's pre-born creations when He Himself has wasted a vastly greater number with no more explanation than "His Will Be Done." Is each failed pregnancy a reflection of God's Will or random chance? For myself, I cannot subscribe to a belief system which would have God so deeply involved at the pre-born level and simultaneously hold that man is a creature of free will. The concept is absurd to the point of being ludicrous. Does all of the above constitute an excuse or justification for abortion? Maybe, maybe not, but it DOES put the issue in a different perspective.
----------------------------
Stipulated:
- Life is precious, none may be taken capriciously.
- There are three possible outcomes of a pregnancy:
- Birth
- Abortion, due to human intervention
- Abortion, due to God's Intervention (also stipulating an omniscient, omnipotent God; there are no accidents!)
Fact: In 1951, between my birth and the birth of my first sister, my mother had a miscarriage. The cause of the miscarriage, at the time, was unknown. My parents are by no means fatalists, but a comment about "God's Will" would not have been unexpected. Had a doctor 20 years later looked at my parents' medical workups, he would have looked at this incident and shook his head. Why? My father was blood-type A-positive; my mother is O-negative. What had happened was a case of Rh mismatch, which has caused uncounted miscarriages throughout history. Sometime after this event, some researcher discovered an anti-agent to this syndrome, now known as “RhoGAM,” and since that time, a lot of mothers haven't had to go through the agony of a failed pregnancy.
So what about all those kids who didn't make it through the nine-month sub-lease because no one knew about RhoGAM? Sinners before their birth? Punishment to the parents for some other arcane sin? If so, what about all those who benefited from RhoGAM? Did God decide all of a sudden to reprieve them or was Man able to trump God's Ace (that one doesn't sound likely for an omnipotent God!)? And how many other pregnancies have failed throughout history, long before antiseptic abortion was available, because God decided they wouldn't go to term? The count would make the total number of abortions in the history of man, antiseptic and otherwise, look like a comparison between the Pacific and a glass of water. What kind of God capriciously disposes of life in this manner? No God I could worship!
The fact is, all of those failed pregnancies had reasons: failure to implant, Rh mismatch, hormonal imbalances, a million other reasons, some of which man is learning to control to the point of potentially eliminating failed pregnancies altogether. I have little doubt that we could potentially live to see the day when prenatal medicine develops to the point of being able to frustrate any agent which would prevent a pregnancy from running a full 40 weeks to successful delivery. Are those children spared God's Wrath, or are they damned because of man's intervention? The plain fact of the matter is that there are those who bridle against God's taking of an unborn child for no discernable reason than His Will, then turn around and scream bloody murder when man does the same thing. Which is the greater sin? I have no answer for that one; I just do as I grok.
All I can see right now is people complaining about killing God's pre-born creations when He Himself has wasted a vastly greater number with no more explanation than "His Will Be Done." Is each failed pregnancy a reflection of God's Will or random chance? For myself, I cannot subscribe to a belief system which would have God so deeply involved at the pre-born level and simultaneously hold that man is a creature of free will. The concept is absurd to the point of being ludicrous. Does all of the above constitute an excuse or justification for abortion? Maybe, maybe not, but it DOES put the issue in a different perspective.
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Zarathustra on -
Is Spontaneous Abortion An Act of God?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHIdh2i8E7Y
God is a bloodthirst, baby-killing, murderer!
A ChristiaNet.com poll indicates that life begins at conception and most Christians agree that any desicion to terminate pregnancy before birth is murder.
God terminates 62% of all conceptuses and 25% of all embryos. God works in mysterious ways and 92% of the killings go unnoticed.
God continues to kill unborn babies and 8% of all fetuses are murderd by spontaneous abortion (only 2 percent after 8.5 weeks). This makes God's baby-killing actions more significant than human induced abortions of all kinds.
But God doesn't stop killing babies! Infant mortality (under one year) is almost 5% worldwide and child mortality (under five years) is over 7.3%.
God kills them with genetic disorders, diseases and famine. They live painful lives and die painful deaths.
That's God's way.
-
Permalink Reply by Loren Miller on -
Gee ... what a swell fella ... NOT!!!
Dumb question - where'd you get the stats?
-
Permalink Reply by Stump Parrish on -
The teminology in this pro-life and pro-abortion debate is wrong. The correct teminology is Pro-choice and Anti-choice. This is the only way to present this controversy that is fair to both sides. The anti-choice crowd is determined to give control of our decisions on what we do with our bodies to the Government which they feel they have the right to dictate national policy to.. I'll let Mr. Abbey explain my feelings toward the abortion debate. "Abolition of a woman's right to abortion, when and if she wants it, amounts to compulsory maternity: a form of rape by the State."
Edward Abbey
Religious groups out there appose abortion and yet they also appose sex education in schools. How can these caring individuals risk their daughters health and life, just to increase the size of god's army. Teaching children about safe sex would save more lives than they will ever be able to by stopping abortions. The Catholic Church is responsible for tens of thousands of deaths worldwide because of their stance on this.
-
Permalink Reply by Chris G on -
Some states still require blood tests before marriage. If there were a mismatch would the marriage be prevented/illegal?
-
Permalink Reply by Loren Miller on
-
Hmmmm, "compulsory NON-maternity?!?" If they won't let you use RhoGAM to prevent problems, who knows? About the only thing I can say about predicting the actions of the Catholic Church is that if it feels good, they don't want you to do it!
-
Permalink Reply by Rayray on -
I just had another idea, a little off topic... God's plan determines the day you are born and die, you have discussed the intervention of man giving a fetus a chance at life going against God's plan. On the other hand, God plans death. So if man steps in and saves someone who is 60 yrs old from death from cancer, would this man's life be an abomination after that according to Christianity? Would his soul have expired on earth? Would he walk around in a soulless body while his soul was in its respective afterlife resting place? This certainly makes a point to the ones who say technology shouldn't interfere with God's plan. Like Creating an abomination through cloning. I really haven't organized my thoughts as you just made me think of it but we could definitely expand on this idea.
-
Permalink Reply by Loren Miller on
-
This is my point, only extended on. Man mucks with god's plan all over the place after birth, but before birth? Ooooo, that's a no-no!
PUL-LEASE!
-
Permalink Reply by Howard S. Dunn on -
Keep in mind that laws prohibiting abortion tend to not slow the abortion rate - just the death rate of pregnant women - either in unsafe abortions or in cases where an abortion would have saved her life.
Meanwhile, more pregnancies do lead to more abortions - so let's not use contraception!
Yeah, beautiful.
Oh, BTW, in-vitro fertilization is cool with most "pro-lifers" even though it leads to discarded embryos - whether you use them for stem-cell research or not.
-
Permalink Reply by Loren Miller on
-
Maybe in-vitro is okay with some pro-lifer, but not the Catholic Church! They're so atavistic it's a wonder they can tolerate the 21st century at all!
 |
 |
 |
 |
Latest Activity
- Top News
- Everything
Alexandros replied to Atheist Andrea's discussion Are you open about being an atheist or are you in the closet?
Ruth Anthony-Gardner replied to Ruth Anthony-Gardner's discussion Oligofructose and obesity in the group Diet and Exercise Support GroupRuth Anthony-Gardner replied to Ruth Anthony-Gardner's discussion Oligofructose and obesity in the group Diet and Exercise Support Group© 2013 Atheist Nexus. All rights reserved. Admin: Richard Haynes.
