At school today, there were a bunch of different stands "educating people" about differing subjects, one was Islam. It said on the banner that it "Liberates" women. Next to it, there was a woman wearing a head piece that showed nothing but her eyes. What are some quotes that you know that show this is true or untrue.

Tags: islam, women

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The reason I defend Islam is because I feel freethinking people apply the same irrational fears as say a religious zealot. Infact I am not defending Islam only stating a fact about how Islam "liberates". I think if you are an athiest you must hold yourself to the highest standard possible not just be a person with no morals or one who speaks foolishly about things that they have little understanding of. Thats not a personal attack thats my response. I feel we should raise the bar a bit and be fair. Devil advocate but I stand by my assertion that it does in fact liberate.

Can you please respond to that.
"The reason I defend Islam is because I feel freethinking people apply the same irrational fears as say a religious zealot. Infact I am not defending Islam only stating a fact about how Islam "liberates"."

I don't mean this as a personal attack but it seems like you are defending the nature and actions of Islam even if you aren't defending the belief itself. I have not studied the religion but I have read too many critiques to be easily persuaded that it is harmless, much less admirable.

I know many good and ethical Christians. I do not conclude from this that Christianity is harmless or that the ideas that it promotes are beneficial. I apply the same judgement to Islam and I avoid irrational fears whenever possible.
"I don't mean this as a personal attack but it seems like you are defending the nature and actions of Islam even if you aren't defending the belief itself."

Precisely, Tom. Unfortunately you would need to learn some arabic to research in depth for yourself otherwise you are taking someone else's ideas and not making your own assessment. On the other hand all that is required to learn something well is being fearless and having ones emotions in check.

Even the Transliteration of the Meaning of the Quran (english copies) are simply one person's interpretation and they vary from interpreter to interpreter. One thing to note is the arabic language itself. What we get fed is simply one interpretation of sentences that have up to 7 different meanings. Quran was writen in classical Fussha arabic. As the greatest poetic literature to come from arabia for all of its history it changed the way arabic was read and spoken to this day.

I am just rambling now

So to get back on topic and to close please explain the reason why Islam cannot liberate people in this age?
I appreciate the discussion very much.
Nabil
P.S. "I would appreciate you clarifying what you mean by this. I still haven't heard precisely how Islam liberates women and my ignorance of Islam is likely the reason I don't already know."

just by the definition of the word liberates meaning to free. In this case I already stated a few ways it does, sexually, from chemical dependence, usury, gambling etc etc. The truest question we have discovered in this discussion is not does Islam liberate women but to what degree and are there better ways to do this than joining Islam.
Thanks again
"Even the Transliteration of the Meaning of the Quran (english copies) are simply one person's interpretation and they vary from interpreter to interpreter."

Even the untranslated original text is open to interpretation since it lacks the diacritics used by modern Arabic, is it not?

Your use of the word "free" (as a verb) is very different from my own. I fully expect you to argue, based on your use of the word, that a man locked in a cage is freed from being eaten by a tiger. What you fail to acknowledge is that he can never be free of the threat from the tiger until he is truly freed from his cage and allowed to attack back. This is the same way that Islam frees people from all of those things that you listed.

It is difficult to believe that you no longer adhere to the Islamic faith. I would like to hear you state that you disavow any belief in Allah or any other gods. I would like to think that if you can do this then you are sincere and belong in this community.
"Even the untranslated original text is open to interpretation since it lacks the diacritics used by modern Arabic, is it not?"

Diacritics have always been used but are left out in some forms of writing. Its possible to know what is being said based on the spelling and context so diacrits can be left out but to my knowledge this doesn't change the original unless the original was made to have several meanings. When I say it can have up to 7 meanings I mean its possible to interpret the same sentence many ways due to either the way it is written ( the word itself has more than one meaning) or the context it was made in refers to other things as well. Thats confusing I know so I will try and find a good example sometime.

"It is difficult to believe that you no longer adhere to the Islamic faith."
Why?

"I would like to hear you state that you disavow any belief in Allah or any other gods. I would like to think that if you can do this then you are sincere and belong in this community."

Allah can eat my ass after a day spent eating prunes along with anyone else who thinks they can talk down to me for voicing my opinion about Islam liberating people. Its not even an opinion what am I saying.
What do you people even know? All I see are bunch of monkeys flinging feces with one exception.

Christianity can also liberate women same with Bhudism.
"Allah can eat my ass..."

This statement does not indicate that you disbelieve in Allah.

"Its not even an opinion what am I saying."

You have not given a single explanation of how or why Islam liberates women. You seem to take it for granted but you have not refuted any of my arguments and have offered none of your own. Therefore, everything you have said so far is very much just your opinion.
couldn't care less what you think.
Good Morning...readers of this thread might find what PZ Meyers posted yesterday interesting...watch the video....also the cover of the upcoming Aug.9th front cover Time....Liberates women?..You have got to be kidding!
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/
http://www.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,20100809,00.html
Does anyone else wanna start shit with me? Please don't hold back. Get it all out.
Well not exactly what I had in mind when I asked if anyone wanted to start shit but that ok too.

"We generally see theism as hostile to human rights."

And I don't blame you for that. I understand completely how you must feel towards theism. We are after all constantly bombarded by them and as we have seen to a lesser degree ourselves. I get that.

"You seem to be defending the subjugation of women as providing them a freedom from equal opportunity."
See that is what I am trying to understand myself but thus far its been a lot of hostile words from people who cannot express themselves. I suppose you are right.
"Do you think a woman should have a right to be polyandrous?"
yes, only if the ratio of female child birth to males was 5- 1. Currently its split 50 50 so any polygamy is wrong in my personal opinion.

"To be free to do anything a man feels free to do? To be taken as seriously as a man if she has the same intellectual prowess? If not, how do you defend a system that denies her these things."

When you say feels free to do anything a man feels free to you mean what exactly? Second question I believe Women more often are smarter than men so yes. I am trying to establish how the system denies her these things. You should elaborate more.

This is what I believe. If we want to have the freedom to liberate ourselves we must allow others to find spiritual liberation through their religion. Religion is a force all the athiests in the world united couldn't stop. Its only natural we 6 billion people are not one faith or athiest.
fellow human being I'm gonna put the nail on the coffin.As I read most of the thread u posted the mainissue was that Islam liberates woman.I have very little knowledge about Islam and I don't wanna sound like an expert and make a fool out of myself.But can you explain how is it that in Palestine gathering young girls and reciting verses of the Quran instead of teaching math,science,economics etc.Is liberating to women? I don't wanna argue about the cultural garbs and the identity factor.I want you to explain how is it that by depriving woman of all these world renown self integration sciences to the rest of the world is liberating.
You have no idea whats going on in Palestine.

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