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Is our Free World at risk?

As much as i hate to admit the following i will speak my mind, and hope that others might listen.

The Free World As we know it might in fact come to a close. And no this isn't some kind of apocalyptic disaster, the issue is religion. And yes even though all religion is in fact a threat to an advancing civilization, their is one that is gaining momentum and has the potential to literally start a a massive war. Their religion is Muslim, and their goal, to "unite" the world under one "God" by any means necessary. The methods employed by them are simply put violent.
As an Atheist i look around And witness the ever growing numbers under the Muslim fate. This troubles me to a point of fear. Their religion is slowly encroaching upon both America and Europe, where their teachings of a violent religion spread unopposed due to our democratic government.

So i need to hear what the opinions of others on this subject, to see if this a matter that must not be tacken lighty.

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Permalink Reply by Howard S. Dunn on May 5, 2010 at 12:42am

The so-called 'free world' is always at risk, we have never actually achieved it, and it remains a constant goal. Religion (see ANY period of ANY world history) is ALWAYS a drag on human progress toward compassionate democratic meritocracy. This is because, despite the claims of a 'strong faith' and 'pious conviction', the more religious a person is, the more they tend to demonstrate deep insecurity in their world view in the form of righteous bigotry and the inability to accept pluralism.

Islam is, in an historical context, no more or less despotic, violent and dangerous than any other major religion. Even Buddhism teaches people to just be happy with poverty because this world is just an illusion anyway. And the Pope, religious leader of 25% of the world's population, preaches that condoms lead to 'sin', even in Africa where he is well aware there are over twelve million AIDs orphans already. That is mass murder and an attempt at a heinous genocide in my mind - inflicted through a propaganda machine centuries old that, literally, coined the term "propaganda."

If you don't think that the Nazi's modeled their propaganda machine after the Catholics - and were successful to the extent they were because of it - you are sorely mistaken. The Soviets did the same thing.

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Permalink Reply by Francisco Gutierrez on May 5, 2010 at 1:09am

Well its true that their have been mass murders that have stood behind a religion to provide a false sense of justification for their actions. And that can be also said for religion turning a blind eye on world events and provide a simple and ineffective solution. As you said the pope tries to deal with the problem with an action that satisfies his belief. the Nazis cruel actions were sooner or later brought onto the field of battle and dealt with, even though the scars of the past still remain. I'm not sure of the soviets as i will have do more research on them. But like the threats of the past, their are soon to be repeated by the Muslim faith. as they show a devotion that the followers of other religions cannot compare to. From the fanatical Suicide bombings to the silencing of those who dare to speak against them.
Of course i do not no if my statement is correct, and i mean no disrespect.

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Permalink Reply by Johnsky on May 5, 2010 at 1:36am

It's not as simple as their desire to enforce Sharia law outside their home nations. The Christian response to what they perceive as this threat could spell fascism without a single attempt at Sharia law being moved in.

You see, many Christians I know of are mortified at the prospect of Muslims becoming a majority voting base, or at least having enough people in their country to make a difference at the polls.
For some reason, these Christians are convinced that the only reason any Muslim comes to their country is to try to change it into how they want it.

We of course know this isn't true. You migrate to a new country because you like the way it is there, not because you have some "fiendish plan" to alter it.

Unfortunately, Christians being Christians, they won't look at the rational side of things. Instead, their paranoia grows into racial prejudice... which, as we have seen through history, is like a damned infection. It spreads.

Racism at the polls becomes dangerous. You see, when legal and government decisions become persuaded by racial causes, you can guarantee the minorities are about to lose their rights.
Once you let the Christians treat immigrants as second class citizens, guess who their next target would be...
...anything that isn't Christian.

Of course, reading this, you'll likely scoff and think "what age does he think we're living in?" And rightly so... you've grown accustomed to a world where that line of crazy isn't stepped over.
But, history repeats itself. Sadly.
And each and every time, the one phrase repeated is "I just didn't think it could happen here."

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Permalink Reply by Francisco Gutierrez on May 5, 2010 at 2:05am

Your right in that in this world people step over the the boundary that keeps us sane. And its also true as humanity goes through all these struggles we fail to fully understand them and how to deal with them and so it is repeated. so your right in that in the U.S, people are more worried over political power being swayed to the opposition. But of course this unfortunately cannot be said of the events happening in parts of Europe. where the government just lets a religion which is harmful to its society in large "dozes" spread, ultimately affecting the local population.

i don't know if this is the right way to say it since my vocabulary isn't well developed.

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Permalink Reply by Johnsky on May 5, 2010 at 9:38pm

A wise man once told me "The purpose of a language is to get a point across, whether you master the language or not is moot, can you get the point across?"

You can get the point across, and just did... clearly your vocabulary is developed enough.
This is a compliment.
Don't let anyone suggest you're less than intelligent because you have less of a vocabulary. I've met many useless people with a better vocabulary than I.

Anyways, I have observed that historically Europe has been VERY open with immigration, as you mentioned. However, recently I have observed the emergence of what I can only describe as the racial right wing.

For example. France is attempting to refuse immigration to people who are visibly religious. Belgium has just banned the Burka (face concealing head dress) outright.
Britain has a relatively new party on the block called the BNP, whose stance is British first, immigrants be damned.

It's happening over there... but the system of government they use means political stances are slow to change. Parliaments have their ups and downs. Mostly ups, but sometimes they're slow to act. Some would argue the same for all governments outside of dictatorships.

I firmly believe we will see the re-emergence of fascism in our lifetime. At first, (as always) we will see it as just and necessary. But when it's all said and done, we will of course view those who stood for it as disgusting.

History repeats itself.

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Permalink Reply by Prog Rock Girl on May 5, 2010 at 10:28pm

I firmly believe we will see the re-emergence of fascism in our lifetime.

I do too, but Islam will not be the victim of this fascism; they'll be the perpetrators.

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Permalink Reply by Jaume on May 6, 2010 at 2:57am

As well as the victims. The current regime in Iran shares many traits with historical fascism.

And while I don't completely agree with Hitchens here, his famous column on Islamofascism is still relevant.

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Permalink Reply by Prog Rock Girl on May 5, 2010 at 10:27pm

Once you let the Christians treat immigrants as second class citizens, guess who their next target would be...
...anything that isn't Christian.

If Muslims become the majority, it will be a more extreme version of the religious right. I've had Christians treat me just fine as a non-Christian. I don't know if you've noticed or not but Muslims haven't been too tolerant of anything that isn't Islamic.

You migrate to a new country because you like the way it is there, not because you have some "fiendish plan" to alter it.

Implementing Sharia law has nothing to do with altering a country? People used to come to other countries to live permanently and to have a better way of life, and many people still do come for this reason. But there are also people who only come to a country to benefit economically, and don't want to assimilate or change in any way. There have been Muslim immigrants who have straight up said that they don't want to change for the country; they want to make the country change for them. CAIR has also said that they want Islamic law in America instead of democracy.

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Permalink Reply by Jaume on May 6, 2010 at 3:33am

I'm rather pessimistic by nature, yet I've a feeling Muslims may secularize before they become the majority. The North African and Middle Eastern immigrants I've met in France so far tend to belong to one of these categories:

(a) I'm a practicing Muslim but all other religions are fine too, religion is personal and should be kept in the private sphere
(b) I do the ramadan, but only because it's part of my culture and I'm used to it
(c) I'm a Muslim in name only, and I just hate preachers and proselytes - but don't tell my wife
(d) I don't give religion a shit. And I drink alcohol.

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Permalink Reply by lOS`AMIGOS on May 6, 2010 at 3:52am

@Jaume "I'm rather pessimistic by nature, yet I've a feeling Muslims may secularize before they become the majority"

I kind of agree Jaume .Id say its most likely the best chance left.Mulims and Christians both try spreading fear of each others faith,suggesting the others trying take over and inforce itself etc.

Maybe the best hope there is left is for non faith believers to keep busy trying to convince as many as possible on both sides, of the stupidity and utter foolishness of continuing to be a follower of either

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Permalink Reply by John Williams on May 6, 2010 at 6:32am

Jaume,
It might well be that the Muslims in France fall mainly into those four categories. Most of those that I have encountered in Paris are from former French colonies such as Algeria. The vast majority in the UK are from Bangla Desh. Those in my city are definitely a major growing force. In business they are remarkable, mainly due to working much harder than the indigenous population. That is a really good thing. However, their local success has given them the ability to buy a huge disused church and spend millions converting it to a mosque complete with minarets. I wouldn't call these guys "hard core" but they are pretty devout - most of the women wear burqas. Islam is rising and it's a very scary prospect living in its shadow.

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Permalink Reply by John Williams on May 6, 2010 at 6:15am

I agree PRG. Howard said above "Islam is, in an historical context, no more or less despotic, violent and dangerous than any other major religion." Perhaps in a historical context but in the here and now, that doesn't wash. I certainly don't defend Christianity but, except for a bunch of nut jobs, mainly in the US, it is better adapted to the 21st century than Islam, which is still firmly rooted in medieval barbarity. Here in the UK, we are so sensitive and liberal that the government is bending over forwards (intended) for Muslims. The authorities are already turning a blind eye to Sharia courts, undermining one of the oldest democracies on the planet (albeit with a bloody royal family.) The fact is that they are getting very special treatment because so many are rightfully scared of the repercussions if they don't.

On the other point of oppression of minorities, would it be fascism to discriminate against fascists?