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Permalink Reply by Gary Berg-Cross on December 9, 2010 at 12:01pm

I heard Ralph talk at the Green Festival in DC and he had practial suggestions, beyond the book's plot, on how to save the country with $2 Billion to build an independent liberal movement analagous to what the right did with the Tea party.

So one idea is to move to multiparty systems, for "

a competitive democracy, instead of a two-party tyranny that works overtime in enacting state laws to exclude independent and third party candidates and ballots. We’ve done our bit on that. To give the voters more choices beyond just the increasingly corporatized Republican and Democratic party choices."

He argues that this would motivate people — to think they can make a difference in their neighborhoods, communities, state and nation and the $$ could be spent to build more and more democratic institutions. in government, higher education etc.

See http://www.onlythesuperrich.org/blog/ for more discussion of this.

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Permalink Reply by Phil on December 9, 2010 at 12:19pm

It's a pipe dream. Ralph's pipe dreams gave us George W. Bush, Iraq, a huge debt, a tyranny of the rich/corporate and an economic collapse. Good work, Ralph!
Hmm. What would a parliamentary or quasi-parliamentary system in the US look like? Parties might include the Family Values Party (real 'Jesus-lovin' patriots), the Libertarian Party, the Rainbow Party (with a lopsided spectrum), the Republican Party (the rich, corporate), the Green Party and the Democratic Party (the second to smallest [the Progressive Party]). Various coalitions on the Right, funded by corporations, would dominate government for decades.

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Permalink Reply by Park Bierbower on December 9, 2010 at 12:29pm

I have to agree. what's needed is a paradigmatic revolution governmentally, not necessarily trying to work within the system. I don't understand why a non representative democracy isn't the best solution. every person votes personally, not through some bureaucrat who ultimately doesn't have anyone to answer to~ sure, the voters, but what, after the fact? bullshit. adding more parties would just bog down this system that is, at this point, almost grinding to a halt. more parties would involve including more gears into the machine; more moving parts, more breakdowns, more failures, less done.

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Permalink Reply by Gary Berg-Cross on December 9, 2010 at 2:32pm

>It's a pipe dream

I don't agree that it need be that type of dream, but I do think that there is an invested interest in blaming Ralph for "pipe dreams gave us George W. Bush, Iraq, a huge debt, a tyranny of the rich/corporate and an economic collapse." Some of the people with this view are talking about his presidential run rather than building a movement on the left. And some people just want to splinter any real discussion of movements on the left. Right wing groups like to belittle efforts on the left and whose interest does that narrow view serve?


This may also be more of blaming the message that the Democratic party as it exists is splintered itself and thus compromised. Perhaps an outside effort can build enough of a nugget to be effective. It would at least counter blue dogs.

What one might consider is having a well funded group on the left that is not splintered and determined not to be distracted and compromised.

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Permalink Reply by Grace Fitzpatrick on December 9, 2010 at 12:08pm

i don't think I can add anything someone else hasn't said already. Obama has been a big disappointment. I really wanted Hilary, but she wasn't selected by the party to run for president. I sure hope I'm in for some big surprises in the next two years, but I doubt I will be. I keep reminding myself he's better than McCain and Palin. From my stand point, his VA Secretary has done a lot for vets and that's something. I wish we could have Gen. Shinseki as Secretary of the VA forever. He, at least, is doing a fantastic job. I am very pleased with him even though Obama himself seems lack luster. Why surround himself with some of the greatest minds in the Democratic party then totally blow them off?

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Permalink Reply by Sentient Biped on December 9, 2010 at 1:46pm

INteresting editorial on Obama in The Root. "Why Obama Is Breaking Up With Democrats. Obama's not a progressive, Democrats are all talk and 2012 is right around the corner" The theme is basically, "Get over it progressives, I'm just not that into you. And I never was"

"Obama Is Not Progressive

Call him a big-government conservative or call him America's City Manager. Liberals have to disabuse themselves of the idea that Obama is caving in on his core principles, because his core principle is being reasonable.

Sometimes it works and sometimes not, but as long as progressives keep thinking that he'll "fight back" or "draw a line in the sand," they're doing themselves a disservice and, ironically, clinging to the same belief held by the right: that a Hawaiian with an extra consonant at the end of his name must be a progressive. He's not, and he never really was.

(Not sure why the author chose "Hawaiian" as a descriptive - almost no one thinks of Obama as Hawaiian, and he and the rest of us view him as Black. And his name ends in a vowel.)

The entire article is an interesting read. I think a lot of people projected, who they wanted Obama to be, onto him. Including me. Or they "hoped" he would be that projection. Including me. Maybe he wasn't that person, but it was a useful concept for him to harness the enthusiasm to help win his election. I think that might be how it works for a lot of polititicians. The "Hope and Change" brand was really just that, a brand.

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Permalink Reply by Louis on December 9, 2010 at 1:56pm

It's a little more than just projecting ourselves onto him, which still probably makes up a good amount of why he got so much support, it's the promises he made to us that he has thus far been totally inept at acting upon -- then again expecting a politician to come through on a promise is another mistake we all made.

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Permalink Reply by Park Bierbower on December 9, 2010 at 2:07pm

I think it really is about projection. he never claimed to be progressive~ even democrats as a whole aren't very progressive. democrat and liberal aren't really synonyms, just lumped together. I'm pretty sure he was elected by a moderate majority, not a progressive majority~ and that is the platform he is working for.. I think it might be all the right wing bullshit about him being an uber liberal, socialist, ultra progressive is getting to our heads and actually convincing us that he is. we are always the first ones to point out how unprogressive he is, how un-socialist he is when he's being attacked for it, but when it comes to our expectations we almost impose those same standards on him. I think the sad part is that for as excited as we have been for him, and for what a milestone his election was, he will go down in the books only for his ethnicity and not for being a revolutionary president.

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Permalink Reply by Park Bierbower on December 9, 2010 at 2:18pm

btw, talk about republican priorities~ check out the 9/11 responders bill on nytimes~ defeated by republicans. "who's gonna pay the 9 billion dollars???"
it makes me want to vomit.

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Permalink Reply by Louis on December 9, 2010 at 3:30pm

It's just these god damned lazy first responders begging for another hand-out at the government trough.

"Oh, look at me, I went in to save peoples' lives while thousands of others fled for life and limb. Oh, I didn't do the responsible thing and check if my insurance policy covered inhalation of pulverized stone and people. Oh, I didn't consider the long term effects of rescuing people in collapsed buildings made when asbestos was put into everything. Now give me money, Big Government!"

Boo-hoo. Fucking communists.

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Permalink Reply by Phil on December 9, 2010 at 3:50pm

Remember, they're New Yorkers, not popular things to be in states like Oklahoma or South Carolina where the Republican majority hails from

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Permalink Reply by Louis on December 12, 2010 at 11:27pm

It's so odd that the people who keep screaming, "9/11 Never Forget," to the point that it's become distressingly laughable are the same people who seem to have forgotten 9/11.

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