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Is it Ever OK to Hate a "Belief"? An Ethical Question
In another group a gentlemen posted this comment:
I am a hardcore Atheist, infact i have a tattoo on my wrist to prove it, but i dont hate anyone because of their beliefs
In reply I posed the following and seek A/N member opinions on it:
Are you limiting that to their religious beliefs? Or would you extend that lack of hate to people whose philosophical perspectives are distainful to you.
for instance: If I "believed" all hispanics/latinos should be deported to their original country of origin... and were active in trying to make that happen... would you, as a latino, be as accepting?
If I "believed" Jews were subhuman and deserve to be extermined... would you, as a Jew, still not have feeling that rise to the level of hatred?
What if my belief included child sacrifice as part of my religious rites?
If I was of the belief that my religion, my "belief system" , was the one TRUE relgion and MUST be imposed on others...infiltrated into goverenemnt, indoctrinated in children in public schools, be the guiding principle for sexual conduct and all human behavior ... etc., etc., etc. and I worked to make those things a reality in your country... could you withold distain?
And if your answer to all those things is "Yes", then my last questions are these:
What would it take to enflame you to hatred of "belief"?
Where do you draw the line and take a stand in opposition to injustice and intolerance?
Is there nothing that would prompt you to express hatred for beliefs that truncate human freedom?
I hate those things I described above... passionately. It's hard for me to imagine a freethinker not having a similar passion.
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I'm waiting for a reply. Meanwhile what's your opinion? Is my position wrong? Can hate be a positive emotion that moves one to action? Or is hate of a "belief" always wrong, an invalid emotion?
Hump
I am a hardcore Atheist, infact i have a tattoo on my wrist to prove it, but i dont hate anyone because of their beliefs
In reply I posed the following and seek A/N member opinions on it:
Are you limiting that to their religious beliefs? Or would you extend that lack of hate to people whose philosophical perspectives are distainful to you.
for instance: If I "believed" all hispanics/latinos should be deported to their original country of origin... and were active in trying to make that happen... would you, as a latino, be as accepting?
If I "believed" Jews were subhuman and deserve to be extermined... would you, as a Jew, still not have feeling that rise to the level of hatred?
What if my belief included child sacrifice as part of my religious rites?
If I was of the belief that my religion, my "belief system" , was the one TRUE relgion and MUST be imposed on others...infiltrated into goverenemnt, indoctrinated in children in public schools, be the guiding principle for sexual conduct and all human behavior ... etc., etc., etc. and I worked to make those things a reality in your country... could you withold distain?
And if your answer to all those things is "Yes", then my last questions are these:
What would it take to enflame you to hatred of "belief"?
Where do you draw the line and take a stand in opposition to injustice and intolerance?
Is there nothing that would prompt you to express hatred for beliefs that truncate human freedom?
I hate those things I described above... passionately. It's hard for me to imagine a freethinker not having a similar passion.
---------------------------------------------
I'm waiting for a reply. Meanwhile what's your opinion? Is my position wrong? Can hate be a positive emotion that moves one to action? Or is hate of a "belief" always wrong, an invalid emotion?
Hump
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Фелч Гроган on -
Hump: But this will be the last response to your comments, and from others like you, since they are intentionally meant to close down discourse. I won't feed a troll.
The squeal of the feeble. You sound so terribly familiar.
But you still haven't explained why you think its OK to shill your own book on Amazon, or use a|n (and richarddawkins.net for that matter) as free advertising space for commercial purposes.
http://theatheistcamelchronicles.blogspot.com/
Nor have you explained why if there are such adulating reviews of your book on Amazon, not one person has left a comment on your blog in the 4 months that its been there.
You make it so very difficult to believe anything you say.
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Permalink Reply by Joey on -
I'm with Felch. Real hate is pretty much an alien concept to everyone here.
Some might've been on the recieving end of it once or twice, but no one here is likely to possess it.
Sure, people will say "I hate them", but if you gave them the option to kill a member of that group, even with no fear of consequences, not a single person here would take you up on it.
That's hardly "hate".
If you want to see what real hate is, take a look at the skinhead movement sometime. They're willing to brutally murder people they don't know, even if it means they lose their own life. That is real hate.
Dehumanizing people to the point you're making it easier for others to kill them without a pang of guilt is another good example of real hate.
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Permalink Reply by dromedaryhump on -
Joey,
I'm curious...how can you profess that "real hate" is an alien concept to all 10k members here, especially since some comments here contradict your statement? Wouldn't making such an assertion infer you have polled and or know the minds of allthe members here? I tend to shy away from making absolute statements , esp. those based on faith.
Also... why make the assumption that hate has to result in killing or violence? Can't you hate Fred Phelps and what he stands for without wanting to / or acting on a violent impulse toward him?
Regards,
Hump
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Permalink Reply by Anne Halligan on -
I think I saw the same video Kid or something similar. This was years before the Taliban became members of the 'axis of evil' and I'm with you, I hate those men and the system that propped(s) them up. On the whole I can hate the belief system without hating the individuals, however when they propose or condone the sorts of atrocities you mention, I want to shake them.
I know 'reasonable' theists who will debate their faith, but they tend to be of the ilk for whom their faith is personal and would never evangelise, for those I despair. It's the evangelists who voice their own hatred that get me wound up and yes the word there is hate.
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Permalink Reply by dromedaryhump on
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Don,
your views make alot of sense.. but a question:
If the option was between apathy toward a great injustice (i.e. the creators of the Holocaust and those who support it today, to use a hackneyed hypothetical); and hatred toward those who created it and support ittoday... would not hatred be the more admirable emotion, and thus be positive while apathy would be negative?
This goes back to the concept of absolutes.A non-absolutist would hesitate to declare hate can never be a postive emotion.
Yours in reason,
Hump
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Permalink Reply by dromedaryhump on
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Hmmm.. ok, I understand your perspective. I'm not in agreement though.
I tend to think one has to look at emotions in relative value / relationship to eachother, and in terms of whether or not they provoke a response which would lead to a better world/result vs no change or a worse result.
if apathy allowed the holocaust to continue, and hate against those people caused it to be stopped/defeated., hate wou;ld certainly appear to me to be a positive emotion, with a positive result. Or you might say its a neg emotion, but better than apathy, but with a postive result. that I could see too.
Good convo,
thanks.
Hump
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Permalink Reply by Nathan Phelps on -
A sincere question...how is Hate an inherently negative emotion? To hate something that is profoundly evil seems the right, indeed the only, response. Help me understand that statement Don.
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Permalink Reply by Nathan Phelps on
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A lot! Thanks Don.
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Permalink Reply by JayBarti on -
I am pretty close to Catana on the thought that I don't believe I have ever experienced true hatred. Disgust, contempt, dislike, yes certainly but not to the extent I have seen in other more extreme individuals. I can't say I have ever really been the target of true hatred either though.
I think it is a strong emotion that takes a passion and a belief in something so much that it can make you blind to whats really around you. I don't know that I have that level of pure certainty that brings with it.
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Permalink Reply by JayBarti on
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I don't know... what I have seen of those who commit acts in the name of hatred is so extreme, that they didn't even want to listen to the other side. Their decisions were committed to them long before they had to power to act upon them.
Those events are far away from me, I wasn't there all I have is books, tv and movies on the history of the events. I am interested in understanding how they got there more then the fact that they did. I am interested in helping those affected by those kinds of events. I don't have the time to spend hating them, I would rather attempt to make sure that it doesn't happen again, by getting to the root of the problems.
It's their hatred not mine or my lack of that is at issue.
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Permalink Reply by JayBarti on
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Genocide is terrible and it should be stopped, and deserves to be fought, that doesn't require that I hate it. I would rather make sure it never happens at all, by understand why it happens at all. I am disgusted that people are so closed minded sometimes that they don't recognize that there is another human being in front of them. I have a hard time hating that human being, because even though I might read everything about that person that is ever published I don't really know them.
I can't really speak about it past that because I don't believe I have ever felt hatred because of how I see the results and the acts of people who are described often as being full of it.
Its not a bad or good emotion, it is an emotion, therefor possibly beyond my control. Once again I don't believe I have really experienced it based on what I know about it.
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Permalink Reply by JayBarti on
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lol... are you trying to make me mad :P.
If I hated it I would acknowledge it. I am not one to deny my emotions quite the opposite in fact.
The act of genocide is terrible, but the person who causes the act is still a person, without them it would be just an idea. I don't hate idea's any idea. Idea's should be free to be discussed, even the idea of hatred or the idea of genocide. The acts are where I have my issues, at that point I consider it a humanities problem. Maybe I just want to understand the why more then the how. -
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