In another group a gentlemen posted this comment:
I am a hardcore Atheist, infact i have a tattoo on my wrist to prove it, but i dont hate anyone because of their beliefs

In reply I posed the following and seek A/N member opinions on it:

Are you limiting that to their religious beliefs? Or would you extend that lack of hate to people whose philosophical perspectives are distainful to you.

for instance: If I "believed" all hispanics/latinos should be deported to their original country of origin... and were active in trying to make that happen... would you, as a latino, be as accepting?

If I "believed" Jews were subhuman and deserve to be extermined... would you, as a Jew, still not have feeling that rise to the level of hatred?

What if my belief included child sacrifice as part of my religious rites?

If I was of the belief that my religion, my "belief system" , was the one TRUE relgion and MUST be imposed on others...infiltrated into goverenemnt, indoctrinated in children in public schools, be the guiding principle for sexual conduct and all human behavior ... etc., etc., etc. and I worked to make those things a reality in your country... could you withold distain?

And if your answer to all those things is "Yes", then my last questions are these:
What would it take to enflame you to hatred of "belief"?
Where do you draw the line and take a stand in opposition to injustice and intolerance?
Is there nothing that would prompt you to express hatred for beliefs that truncate human freedom?

I hate those things I described above... passionately. It's hard for me to imagine a freethinker not having a similar passion.
---------------------------------------------
I'm waiting for a reply. Meanwhile what's your opinion? Is my position wrong? Can hate be a positive emotion that moves one to action? Or is hate of a "belief" always wrong, an invalid emotion?

Hump

Tags: ethics, hate, morality

Views: 36

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Replies to This Discussion

Of course it's ok to hate a belief. But are you talking about beliefs or believers?
Thats an interesting question. I'm not sure you can ..I can... separate the two.
seems to me if one holds a belief that is inherently dangerous to others (lives, freedoms, etc) that you can't draw a distinction between the disembodied thought (belief)and the person holding and acting on that thought (belief).

No?

regards,
Hump
http://atheistcamel.blogspot.com/
I just heard a segment on NPR today about an Iraqi man talking to an American on why domestic violence is a cultural difference. It was acknowledged that, in general, NPR listeners are respectful of cultural differences. The Iraqi man's explaination of this "cultural difference" is that women are naturally seductive and, therefore, should be beaten in order to keep their natural tendancies under control. Personally, I hate this belief and if it really came down to it I would also hate the believer for promoting it. There are so many examples of this kind of thinking that I think there should be a line drawn of tolerance of others' beliefs when their beliefs lead to the opression of others.
Julie,
I concur with that conclusion.
thks
Hump
I know this doesn't directly answer the question posed, but I am compelled to address something you brought up Julie. I've always contended that the attitudes toward women in the Middle East flow directly from the inability and/or unwillingness for MEN to keep their instincts in check so they dump the entire responsibility on the women. If you have accurately translated the position of the Iraqi man...well I gotta tell you...I HATE that belief and the behavior that flows from it!
I would hope that the listeners aren't respectful to a repulsive belief like that.
Now, I'm generalising here obviously, I know there are cases that exceed beyond this,
but from what I've seen, most peoples choice for or against a belief is based solely on their own beliefs.

I'm sure there are a hundred and one things we do in our culture that we believe to be right... which other cultures would consider disgusting. Unfortunately, we're not in a position to see those things, as we're the ones who perform those acts and holding beliefs that they're morally "right".

Ultimately, right and wrong are a matter of perspective. Change the perspective, and you change the morals.

Of course, there are some exceptions to the rule... there always are.


For instance, (and I wont state my stance on this topic) Abortion.
Two perspectives, both of them justifiable, but both sides view the other as being "wrong" and often "disgusting".
With this choice, the perspectives tend to be on the lines of whether you consider a Fetus to be a human yet... and how much value you place in someone's personal freedom over their own body.


Now, you ask whether it's ok to hate someone's belief... which in itself is another belief.

So I suppose the questions evolve into :
1: Do you aim to push one belief over all others?
and
2: Is hate an effective tool to do so?
This is the fucking Twilight Zone.

As an atheist, I don't feel hatred, I feel contempt. Or disgust. Sometimes even despair. I don't feel hate. I think it's a fair bet to say that most others here feel the same.

"Hate" is a charged term, and to our credit, true hatred is an alien concept to all of the 10,000 odd members here. It is so alien in fact, that we don't even see it as being remotely related to us and it never even comes up in discussion. "Hate" is Fred Phelps, Ann Coulter and the miscellaneous pus-heads at Fox.

In fact, the only people that have ever raised the topic of "atheist hatred" here (and it happens a lot) have been theist moles on guerrilla evangelism raids, usually to incite some kind of hate response to take away as "evidence".

So, you tell me, why your sudden interest in this subject ? It's a non-existant irrelevancy. It's something that atheists who have spent time pondering their position have evolved past. Your post is rather contrived. What is it you're hoping to hear ? Is this another noise generation exercise ?
Well, you'd think with such an enthusiastic readership, there'd be at least one comment on the advertorial page since April 16. There aren't any -

http://theatheistcamelchronicles.blogspot.com/

Even weirder since its apparently endorsed by RichardDawkins.net like it says. Oh wait, it looks like he wrote his own review there too.
Felch,

Thanks for that input. You have acquitted yourself well here.

You have taken a discussion, gleaned from a Facebook atheist conversation, offered here for consideration and open discourse, and which has drawn legitimate replies, and sought to derail it and use it for personal attack.

Interesting, because it’s exactly what happened in my very first subject posting on this group by one of your close confidents. Interesting also because it also defies your protestations that atheists don’t hold hate

I see a pattern here.
Some of you evidently get to determine for the group what is relevant, and whose subject threads have validity.
Some of you speak for all “10,000” members in terms of what their perspectives are, and what emotions they hold.. thus no further discourse is needed.
Some of you carry personal and inflammatory comments from thread to thread in order to stifle legitimate exchange.
That must be very gratifying to you. I can’t imagine it is to all the members here , but that’s for them to decide.

But this will be the last response to your comments, and from others like you, since they are intentionally meant to close down discourse. I won't feed a troll.

Now…I have another thread that discusses the “true god” concept and asks what pagan god one might prefer to worship. Perhaps you can go there, and express your hatred … that you profess atheists here don’t hold… question the validity of that thread, proffer an ulterior motive for that thread and give my book more advertising.

Thanks for proving hypocrisy & hatred isn’t the sole provenance of right wing theists; and for promoting my book once again. Here’s the link for those who would like to view the book felch is promoting: http://theatheistcamelchronicles.blogspot.com/

Yours in reason,

Hump
OH SHIT!!!! check out this devestating review of my book on Religious Tolerance. 0rg. Fortunately the site owner tells me the full review can't be scheuled till Feb 2010. Whew...maybe I can still sell a few before that shuts me down..LOL...

I am done for now. Felch must really have his finger on the pulse of literary merit.

scoll down: http://www.religioustolerance.org/atheist3.htm
Mistake..not full review in Feb... their BOOK OF THE MONTH in Feb!!
Long wait.. but hey.
What a bummer for a new author to be on the internet's biggest religion/anti-religion discussion news and discussion site :)

Anyway... sorry, I digress lets get back to hate...

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