IS EVERYBODY 100% POSITIVE THERE IS NO GOD?

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Permalink Reply by Vanessa on July 13, 2010 at 4:47pm

200% sure! how's that?

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Terence Meaden on July 13, 2010 at 5:03pm

Quite right Jason, and well expressed.
Either the Universe is, or is going to be, 100% explicable by science, or it isn't--- in which case Carl's proffered level of 0.001% uncertainty corresponds to an element reserved for a species of non-scientific answer, i.e. to something implausibly supernatural and divine.
This amounts to an attempt to allow a creator god some tiny degree for manoeuvre in case there is one, but the idea gets booted out by failing to resolve the problem of infinite regression.

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Permalink Reply by Mustafa on July 14, 2010 at 4:00pm

I am 100% sure the Abrahamic god(as in Judaism ,Christianity and Islam ) does not exist ,but for other gods like in deism as an example I will say 99.99% .

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Permalink Reply by D R Hosie on July 15, 2010 at 1:50pm

Fred, you're trying to pick up and move Spicer's whole argument and analogy, to a whole new tennis court.

That's the whole trouble with discussions that are allowed locus in both scientific, and philosophical / religious issues. It's kinda like, you have to pick a discipline and stick to it - shuffling back and forth between the two is a disingenuous method of confusing the issue.

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Permalink Reply by Jason Spicer on July 15, 2010 at 2:04pm

That's basically right, D R. Plus, the religious argument is rooted in circular reasoning. Their conclusion that God exists is in their givens. Of course, they don't see that as a problem. But yes, the fact that believers make a leap of faith is no more than a logical mistake. They can do that, but it doesn't mean anything to the truth value of their statements. It in no way justifies their conclusions. They think it does, but that's just mistaken reasoning. Well, and an act of desperation; "I can't actually see a god anywhere, but I so desperately want it to be true that I'm going to believe it anyway."

And Fred, your 1.1 corollary is just another way believers weasel out of the scientific position by using metaphor rather than synonym, as deists do. If God is a metaphor for our highest value, then it has no real existence as an entity that created the universe. They are admitting that it's just an idea. In that sense, they are capitulating to the scientific position, but retaining a warm fuzzy about God by simply placing him into the realm of exalted ideas.

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Permalink Reply by D. Swift on July 17, 2010 at 7:38pm

i personally believe it all depends on how you define god. if the sun is something you call god i am then a theist to that god. there is evidence the sun exists. once you give the sun attributes of omnipresence or something similar i can say i am atheist to the attributes given to the sun god due to a lack of evidence but i still know that the sun exists.

The problem with Abrahamic religions is that they don't even have a single bit if evidence to initially make me believe that this god exists BEFORE talking about how great he is, or all the things he (or jesus) does or has done for you. instead they try to bypass intellectual thought and dive into emotions by acting as if they have an absolute moral code and telling you that you have constantly been breaking it and you must 'repent'.

then they usually use pascal's wager but that is such a joke you can just laugh it off :)

needless to say one cant be 100% sure of anything. Its possible to give it a probability but never absolute certainty. There is always a possibility that there has been a mistake in a theory and in a certain situation.

"Steel is a combination of iron and carbon. We know this to 100% certainty." -Jason Spicer

We do know that steel is a combination of iron and carbon but that is not all steel is made of. there are always impurities in steel no matter what. Dust, oxygen, oil, ect. will get into steel no matter what you do and no matter what grade of steel you make. This means that thought this combination does make steel it does not make pure steel. which, if you give 100% certainty technically the product must be 100% certain. This not being the case we cannot say we have 100% certainty because we do not know the range of the final products imperfections.

Therefore i do not believe we can use absolute certainty

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Permalink Reply by Jason Spicer on July 17, 2010 at 7:50pm

This discussion is getting silly. Those who say we can't be 100% sure of anything seem to be 100% sure that that's true. That is an article of faith, particularly in a time when we actually do know plenty of things with 100% certainty. It is one thing to say that scientific results are provisional. It is quite another to say that we can never be sure about anything.

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Permalink Reply by Daniel on July 18, 2010 at 1:21am

>> we can't be 100% of anything' is just an intellectual game we like to play

Absolutely, its called epistemology or more specifically fallibilism / skepticism.

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Permalink Reply by Daniel on July 18, 2010 at 12:39am

Logic and math can have absolutes.

Science does have absolutes but I'm not sure how to identify them. At the end I find it pragmatic to remain skeptical; identifying absolutes is one of the most effective ways of identifying bullshit.

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Permalink Reply by D R Hosie on July 18, 2010 at 11:27pm

Daniel, I am 100% sure that you are more interested in being an argumentative f*cktard - at least on this thread - rather than displaying any actual intellectual honesty in your answers. Sometimes bullshit just likes to hide behind a plethora of verbal smoke and mirrors - a case of "If you can't dazzle 'em with the details, baffle 'em with the bullshit."

After forcing themselves to pick through your many dissembling diatribes, I don't think you've managed to baffle anyone but yourself.

Just sayin'

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Permalink Reply by Daniel on July 19, 2010 at 9:03pm

I love talking about philosophy and find it apropos when discussing religion.

If you don't like philosophy and consider it bullshit that's your prerogative but its not a reason for an ad hominem much less something to be angry about it.

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Permalink Reply by Nev Saberon on July 24, 2010 at 8:18pm

We have to (first) know all the different definitions of god/gods that people believe in. We have one that the deists and some fundies believe called the deistic god, one "who" claimed to have existed Pre-BigBang, setting up the constants in our universe and letting it loose randomly without this god performing any sort of intervention. I may consider the deistic god plausible since the universe as we know it is a series of random events obeying to certain laws/constants. But as I analyze this, the deistic god is completely bound to the nature of his/her own creation; can't really do anything to stars and stuffs in space hitting and colliding each other, or being devoured by huge wormholes! My definition of a god is something or "someone" that is powerful and perfect and just by looking at these huge mess, I therefore say that god/gods are gap-fillers made by religious people to questions that science haven't had answers yet,... and I am 100% sure there is no such thing as god, neither the intelligent designer-god or the theistic god, one who turned water into wine or had a man live inside a stomach of a big fish. Absolutely 100% sure there is no such god (described by theists) as we are absolutely 100% sure there are no fairies.

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