I wanted to put this question out there to see how strongly everyone feels on this subject. Being that most of us trust in scientific fact and reasoning, I was wondering if everyone is absolutely, undeniably, 100% sure that a god doesn't exist.  I personally take into account that there is no proof of any cosmic creator so therefore I am about 99.9999% sure that there is no god. However we all agree that science is an ever evolving field and I don't think that there will ever be any proof to support the existence of a supreme being, but I can't be 100% sure until there is concrete proof against one. I would like to know what all of your thoughts on this.  

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Why should we all be guaranteed anything? And shouldn't only the people that think things should be guaranteed pay for it? That first phase you are talking about should be guaranteed by the parents. People should not be having kids before they can provide for them. Shouldn't it be their responsibility? I did not ask for all of the millions of kids, and adults, I am forced to help take care of. And I don't want to take responsibility for them.

Hey Micheal,

I created a new Thread.

Here is the link.

http://www.atheistnexus.org/forum/topics/libertarianism-and-socialism

I haven't put my response in yet though.

Who forces you to take care of them? Why are you responsible for them? 

On a previous topic, I have your response to my comment and I have not completed my response yet.  I haven' forgotten or run away.

You do, by forced taxation. It's not only that I have to pay for roads I don't use, but I have to pay for other people's 'share' of the cost, whether I drive on them or not. I am forced to put money into social security so that millions of individuals can get tattoos and piercings and cigarettes and an IPhone, instead of the food or education or a hunt for a job (while I provide their medical care that we are paying for). I am not suggesting doing any of those things makes you depraved, just when you do them before getting health-care or a job or shelter or birth control.

The very politicians who people on welfare look up to and depend on are the very same ones responsible for them being 'stuck' there. It's disgusting. Almost the whole country is fooled into thinking that the 'compassionate' politicians want our money so that the unfortunate can rise. They don't want that. Where would they then get all their power? They wouldn't have any.

I am made to be by the mob. According to liberal's 'moral code', I owe these people my life and more so because I am productive. According to the right, I owe my life to god and his  contradictory and arbitrary moral code. I say I owe my life to no one. But since the majority won't let me be in control of myself, I do what I can to survive and be happy, despite the forceful coercion. I mean, being a producer in America is actually pretty great compared to the other options, but awful compared to a more morally advanced society that values autonomy and not sacrifice.

MCT: "It's not only that I have to pay for roads I don't use, but I have to pay for other people's 'share' of the cost, whether I drive on them or not."

Joan: Do you live in an apartment, home, or some dwelling that is vulnerable to fire?  Do you pay taxes for firefighters to drive to your dwelling to put it out?  Do firefighters put their safety and lives at risk for your benefit? 

Joan,

I use well less than 1% of the roads in this country. Any roads used by cars, trucks or buses that transports products I buy, or that are used in services I use, come out of the cost of the product and service, stressing I do not use those roads.

Private enterprise can finance fire departments or put them under local governments that are financed through fee for service, paid citizenship or voluntary taxation. Financing a fire fighting department would easily be something any community would be interested in doing for their rational individual self-interest.

Fire fighters are fire fighters for their own sake, not mine. And I only owe them the cost of their services.

Compassion is rational and self-interested, not sacrificial.

I must be missing something here, there is no Reply so am replying to my comment. 

You wrote, "Private enterprise can finance fire departments or put them under local governments that are financed through fee for service, paid citizenship or voluntary taxation. Financing a fire fighting department would easily be something any community would be interested in doing for their rational individual self-interest."

Have you ever been part of a volunteer fire department and understand how they get their funding?  

Do you think private enterprise can finance a fire department ... what do the fire fighters do when a business or house is on fire and they haven't paid into the fire fighting costs? What they do here in the State of Washington is stand and watch the business or house go down and they save the ones who have paid into the fund. 

MCT: You wrote, "Fire fighters are fire fighters for their own sake, not mine. And I only owe them the cost of their services."

Joan:  Do you have any idea how much it would cost you if you were billed for a fire at your home or business?  Could you pay for the fire trucks, fighters, water if it has to be hauled?

Firefighters work out of enlightened self-interest.  

Many countries have socialist principles for the basics: housing, health care, education, eldercare; then free enterprise or laissez-faire enterprise for consumer goods.   

It would certainly be cost effective to pay someone to stop all of your possessions from burning to the ground. And if it wouldn't be, you should let it burn. Enlightened self-interest could nothing more than rational self-interest. There is no logistic problem we need government for, other than protection of our rights.

why couldn't a private enterprise protect our rights as well?

Well, it can't be private, because everyone will be subject to its law.

I think a government can be financed through multiple peaceful means.

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