Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Becca on May 1, 2010 at 1:09pm

I'd probably go to the funerals of people who were important to me but politely abstain from the praying and singing. If anyone asked about it I'd respond "I'm not religious however this person was important to me so I feel I should be here to pay my respects."

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Permalink Reply by Jason George on May 2, 2010 at 7:50am

I agree with Becca. I have no problem sitting or standing silently during religious song or prayer. I have attend funerals and baptisms expecting to sit through this sort of thing. However, living in the South, it seems like you can't get more than 5 people together for a meal without someone insisting it is not finished cooking until the food has been blessed.

I don't bow my head in mock prayer, or lip sync hymns. I'll sit quietly and maintain eye contact with whomever is leading the charade so they know not all of their captive audience are sheep. So far the respect has been mutual and nobody has ever questioned me about my piety, or lack of.

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Permalink Reply by Raizinette on June 14, 2010 at 2:01am

I completely agree. This past year and a half I've been to my fair share of funerals and I just go, give my condolences to the family, speak with relatives and friends in common and go my way. I don't participate in the religious service itself, if there is any, or the singing. Most of the people who know me already know how I feel about religion so they don't really try to "make" me be part of it.

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Permalink Reply by Martin Allen on May 1, 2010 at 1:24pm

Sing away, nobody will judge you for it and you're only there because of your relationship with the deceased, their family and friends, not the imaginary friend. I sing any number of non-religious songs and don't expect anyone to think I associate with the sentiments. It doesn't do any good to create a stir at a funeral, so sing away and blend in - it's just a way of paying your respects to the people concerned, not to a supposed supernatural power.

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Permalink Reply by Sentient Biped on May 1, 2010 at 2:15pm

The person who died will not know whether you participate or not. If it was me, I might go to the funeral out of respect for family members and loved ones, but they will know that I'm nonreligious.

I would feel dishonest if I sang a hymn, and if I felt pressured to do so I would feel manipulated and coerced. No friend of mine is going to coerce me into participation in a religious ritual and leave my last memory of them as a moment of resentment. I'll celebrate their life, but I won't participate in what, to me, feels like a social fraud.

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Permalink Reply by Jaume on May 1, 2010 at 2:54pm

I would feel dishonest if I sang a hymn

Music is just music. I don't see how this would be more dishonest than participating in a ritual dance with African animists, or helping my neighbors hide chocolate Easter eggs in the garden for their children to find.

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Permalink Reply by Sentient Biped on May 1, 2010 at 9:44pm

I couldn't disagree more strongly. Music is powerful. This includes church music. It seems to hypnotize, it seduces, it enthralls. Music is used for many political and social purposes. It's not just music.

For me to sing "Amazing Grace" is for me to lie completely. Frankly, I feel almost like I'm being raped when I hear that song. To go to a funeral and be forced to not only listen to religious indoctrination, but sing along with it - the idea makes me very angry.

Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.

The Lord has promised good to me.
His word my hope secures.
He will my shield and portion be,
As long as life endures.

Yea, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
And mortal life shall cease,
I shall possess within the veil,
A life of joy and peace.

And so on.

I hate this and plenty of other hymns. If I sing along with it, I"m lying. Whatever other people do is their decision, but no atheist can be faulted for refusing to prostitute their voice in the name of religion, even at a funeral.

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Permalink Reply by Martin Allen on May 1, 2010 at 10:32pm

To each, his or her own. For me, I can happily sing along with "Nothing you can say can take me away from my guy" and not expect anyone to think I'm gay. I'd guess that if you flick through your own music collection you'll find some tracks there that you like in which the singer is praising the "lord" or just mentioning in passing. Would you take offence at the Stylistics "You'll never get to heaven if you break my heart", for example? What about George Harrison's "My Sweet Lord", along with all it's "Hare Krishna" references? It's all fine with me, even if it offended the authors of "He's so fine". And there's another thing. Would you ban the Shangri-Las from your playlist because of the group's name? Probably not, but I hope this shows that you could easily go to real extremes on this, and for me it's just a question of where you draw the line.
I'll occasionally sing Christmas carols. To me, singing "Away in a Manger" is no more indicative that I believe in Christianity than singing "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer" means I believe in Santa Claus. I just wouldn't make a habit of it, but as a one-off, I don't mind singing along. I do get offended by a lot of trite Christian pop, though I can compartmentalise earlier hymns and carols from a bygone age, and see them in a different context.
Well, I can appreciate anyone who chooses to take a harder line than I would. That doesn't necessarily mean that one of us is right and the other is wrong. We all choose to draw the line somewhere. It's just a question of where.
I was last in church for my father's funeral last August. He was a devout Catholic, so it was a very Catholic event. I was a pall bearer (would you consider it prostituting yourself to carry your own father's coffin?), and not only did I sing (as best I could, under the circumstances) but I also, at the request of my mother, took communion. She specifically asked my to do so and said it was what my father would have wanted. Personally, I don't believe it would have been an issue for my Dad, but I went along with it to keep my mother happy and not cause any more upset than there needed to be. Does that make me a hypocrite? Eating the wafer meant nothing to me. Was it an outward sign to others in the church that I was "a believer"? Perhaps some of the more distant family members who don't know me so well would have interpreted it that way. Still, for me the important thing was for the funeral to pass off without incident as respectful a way as possible to my father.
So yes, funerals and weddings are times when I can be lured into a church. But once inside I don't feel the need to treat it as the house of my enemy. It's a place where I have been invited by the deceased (if a church funeral was their choice), their family and friends. I don't feel that I'm hanging up my atheism at the door just by singing along with a few songs that may well have meant something to the deceased.

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Permalink Reply by Prog Rock Girl on June 6, 2010 at 8:59pm

What about George Harrison's "My Sweet Lord", along with all it's "Hare Krishna" references?

Actually, that song makes me think of how long it takes to reach orgasm...I wonder if anyone else thought of that...

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Permalink Reply by Sandra Stott on June 7, 2010 at 8:09am

I was last in church for my father's funeral last August. He was a devout Catholic, so it was a very Catholic event. I was a pall bearer (would you consider it prostituting yourself to carry your own father's coffin?), and not only did I sing (as best I could, under the circumstances) but I also, at the request of my mother, took communion.

The only thing that indicates is that you respect your parents. And it's a good thing to do, regardless of differences in beliefs. No point in causing extra pain to your Mum.

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Permalink Reply by Prog Rock Girl on June 6, 2010 at 8:58pm

Actually, I identify with the part in Amazing Grace about being blind and now seeing!

Sometimes I think of singing as a little bit like acting...the lyrics are not always going to be my view or situation.

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Permalink Reply by mojo5501 on June 7, 2010 at 5:42pm

I completely agree with Daniel's statement. I would feel like I was "faking it". I would rather maintain respectful silence. There is no way that I could possibly sing 'Amazing Grace'.

Maybe I feel so strongly because I was once a religious person and once believed the message and sentiment of the hymns... now, I no longer believe the message and I couldn't possibly pretend to just "go along with the program". When hymns or prayers takes place, I simply bow my head and think about something else. It is difficult but the important thing is being there as a family member. My discomfort is secondary. Funerals and weddings are family events...not just "religious" ceremonies.

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