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Permalink Reply by Humble Pie on January 3, 2013 at 9:17pm

This may not follow, but hearing you talk about that made me understand "angry militant feminists" in a whole new light.  It seems like the two could be pretty interchangeable in the right situation.  That's a new line of thought for me.

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Permalink Reply by James Kz on January 3, 2013 at 11:21pm

You cannot win. You cannot defeat in debate a person who does not follow the rules of debate. A believer never follows the rules of debate. When for example, you ask a question he cannot answer, he will either move the goalposts (change the subject), or give a mystical "God works in mysterious ways" non-answer.

And the next person coming along who only thinks if you heard it "his way" will try again.

The best you can do is force the goalpost mover to stay on topic (do not allow him to change the subject - demand satisfaction for your question/statement). In proper debate, a person who has been shown to be wrong or lacking must admit that they are wrong or lacking. To an atheist, an answer of "I don't know" is always acceptable to a question you do not know the answer to; a believer cannot give that answer: religion must be certain, or it is irrelevant.

You must be more knowledgeable about the subject at hand (Christianity/Bible) than the apologist is. That means you gotta read the Bible - it is self-defence for an atheist.

The Skeptic's Annotated Bible/Qu'ran/Book of Mormon is a fine reference, and that Website is now coming out with a print book. He pulls out his Bible and now you can pull out your own study Bible. The difference is SAB has subjects broken out into topics like absurdities, genocide, slavery, &c.
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

Why Won't God Heal Amputees is a Website devoted to the absolute failure of the promise of prayer as told in the New Testament. The site is well-worth reading to understand the fallacy of faith and prayer.
http://whydoesgodhateamputees.com/

The biggest problem with the apologist, the more Fundamentalist the worse, is the New Testament's so-called Great Commission. (That is 1 Peter 3:15.) That commission is to "spread the Gospel, and be able to give a good reason for the joy your faith gives you." That commission also requires him to know and understand his scriptures.

Note the phrase "give good reason." The New Testament also points out that reason is a tool of the devil. Nevertheless, faith is not sufficient to carry on the Great Commission. Moreover, faith is not a virtue anyway (if you have faith I have a penny stock to sell you that will break all records in the next week - faith is gullibility).

Aside from the issue of who has the burden of proof in a positive claim, Peter himself lays out it is the Christian's responsibility to give acceptable proof, not you. If he is demanding you give proof for your atheism, then he is failing the commission of his own Bible, and you don't need to be soft in asserting that.

Finally, for your own edification there is a site that points out all the logical fallacies that appear in debates called "Your Logical Fallacy Is . . ." Read and understand every fallacy listed, so you can be aware of and counter them when they appear in an apologist's arguments. All apologetics require the use of logical fallacies to support their claims.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Permalink Reply by Ruth Anthony-Gardner on January 3, 2013 at 11:22pm

Consider two groups, Winning Arguments! and No Nonsense.

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