How would you take this?

 

 I have a best friend named Sara, she's really sweet and nice and caring and I super love hanging out with her cause we have alot in common, except for the fact that she's super, super religious....

She's from Chile so her and everyone else in her family are catholic, and I mean strongly religious in that annoying ignorant sort of way.

I learned veeeery early into our friendship that religion was not a topic to be brought up under any circumstances. But this one time I was over at her place we somehow got into the topic of heaven and hell and it went really bad to say the least. It started when she was going on about how anyone who doesn't believe in god goes to hell. So I looked at her and asked her if I was going to hell too and she gave me this 'so sorry' squint and nodded.

I asked her why someone who's lived a perfectly decent life and is overall a good person should have to go to hell just because they don't believe in god, like how in anyone's right mind can that be fair? Her side of the arguement was just a series of shrugs and nods or just repeatedly stating that god 'just exists'.

But my problem with the fight, was that I just couldn't f*****g seem to explain to her that this was very offensive. How could she just sit there and casually tell her best friend she was going to the worst place in the world to burn for all eternity. She thought that it was ok, "it's not like you even believe in hell so what do you care?' she says. Ya know what I'm getting at? SHE believes in hell, and in her world its a very real and very awful place. Her reality is that i'm going to hell and I just found it terribly rude and offensive, and whether I think god is a stupid fantasy or not I don't like hearing that someone who's suppose to care for me thinks I'm going to hell.

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Permalink Reply by Carrot Hare on March 5, 2010 at 2:33pm
The picture is of me and Sara! ALSO! Her and her family were in that massive earthquake but they're ok, I had a bit of a panic attack when I found out cause I couldn't get a hold of her at first. :S
Permalink Reply by Tom Thompson on March 5, 2010 at 3:22pm
"I learned veeeery early into our friendship that religion was not a topic to be brought up under any circumstances."

It sounds like you forgot.

You can accept your friends quirks and all, or not. I wish it were otherwise but it rarely is.
Permalink Reply by Carrot Hare on March 5, 2010 at 3:41pm
She brought it up not me...well initially i have no idea but it probably wasn't me either cause I hated talking about it with her. But this part of the arguement was definitely her.
Permalink Reply by Cecilia on March 5, 2010 at 3:33pm
Agree - it is rude and offensive (and the fact that you don't believe in hell has nothing to with whether it is rude/offensive) - your friend is saying to you that, in her view, you are fundamentally flawed, that there is something terribly wrong with you. Because, after all, in her view, hell is the really bad place and so only sinners, only bad, flawed people go there, right? Ask your friend if she thinks you are a bad person who deserves to go to hell. Ask her for the evidence proving your "badness." She can't offer any, correct? The only evidence that you deserve to go to hell is that you do not believe in god. That is it. Your only "sin" is dis-believing in god. How absurd, how utterly messed up is that? In the view of many xtians, a serial rapist and murderer of children, who makes a sincere deathbed confession, for example, goes to heaven!!! You, me and all the other non-believers go to hell...and it doesn't matter whether you have lived a truly good and virtuous life, if you do not believe you are condemned to eternal damnation. Totally messed up!!
Permalink Reply by Carrot Hare on March 5, 2010 at 3:43pm
AMEN! lol
Permalink Reply by Garrick McElroy on March 5, 2010 at 5:13pm
I believe you mean "RAmen!" :P
Permalink Reply by Carrot Hare on March 5, 2010 at 5:33pm
...oh man...that sucks just as hard, if not harder than what i wrote :( sorry about yur luck.
Permalink Reply by Cecilia on March 5, 2010 at 7:03pm
Hey, paisan!! Actually, I am not Italian but I went to h.s. in a small city in Massachusetts where there were lots of 1st & 2d generation Italians and I came to love all things Italian! (This September I am, finally, after all these years visiting Italy!!!)

As someone who also has a confederate ancestor or two I so canNOT relate to your friend - wouldn't want to be associated with glorifying people who were on the wrong side (of course, they will tell you that the civil war was a noble fight for "states' rights" b.s. - if was people fighting for the right to own other people).

I think you should show this guy you are the better man and invite him to join the Sons of Italy -- if you dug way back in his ancestry you'd probably find someone from Italy.
Permalink Reply by damian on March 5, 2010 at 4:43pm
Yeah, that's tough. That's the reason to not talk about it:) It makes my blood boil too. They just do it so casually, like you are supposed to drop to your knees, and beg to go to heaven. I just don't know how i wouldn't be highly offended. I just can't see a way around it. It would be hard for me to continue the relationship in the same way. To me, she is choosing religion over your feelings/your friendship. I don't know if it's worth telling her how it makes you feel; she may try to use that against you. Tragic. I'm sorry that had to happen. She is from a long line of religious people, and she can't can't see around it. Yes, you said it - "ignorant".
Permalink Reply by Carrot Hare on March 5, 2010 at 5:30pm
I know that no matter how religious she is she probably does care more about me than god. Cause I earned her friendship, when I found out she lived near me I asked her to walk home with me every day and it took a while but eventually we became best friends and she probably thought about me way more than she thought about god *BREATHES*. The way I see it, god was just ingrained into her from childhood, like doing the dishes, or eating beans :) I'm sure if life presented the realization she'd see it. Cause me and her and this reeeeally gay guy Rene were all best friends, it was the three of us. And Sara never had a problem with him being gay as long as the topic stayed away from religion, she freaken loved that guy.
At least I can remain positive knowing those things...
Permalink Reply by Tom Thompson on March 5, 2010 at 11:21pm
I've reconsidered. Perhaps telling her how much it hurts you that she judges you worthy of infinite punishment simply for being unable to believe in something you can't see will cause here to reconsider her position. Maybe it's a risk to your friendship and maybe it's what she needs to hear. Just throwing that out there.
Permalink Reply by JayBarti on March 5, 2010 at 5:56pm
Sorry to hear about your friends ignorance however the truth is most seriously religious people think that way, even if they don't say it out-loud. They have convinced themselves that heaven and hell really do exist, and they are being honest (if they truly believe) when they say stupid shit like that. It is quite sad really as I see it, that someone would allow something like that to muddy a friendship.

You are not alone in this, I am still constantly surprised (though I shouldn't be) that I am the only open atheist in my circle of close friends. It really does set me apart at times, for example over Christmas one of them was discussing blasphemy and how it shouldn't be OK to criticize someones beliefs. I wanted to shout-out that their beliefs are technically blasphemous to me, so please stop talking about god as if it exists. However it just wasn't worth the argument and alienation it would have brought me from my friends. I have learned to let it pass mostly, because frankly nothing I say is going to change their minds.

Despite the fact that it is relatively easier to be an out atheist in Canada, it doesn't mean that we are actually accepted on the same level as a theist. It is one of the reason I am glad that A|N exists, it allows me to vent my frustrations freely.

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